CRNA Debate from www.studentdoctor.net

nurseunderwater · May 24, 2004

If your mouth is open put something in it. I'm on Student Doctor Network almost every day and still don't see it. "It'll bring you right to it" - where did you come up with that smart a** answer? .

hmmmmmmmm- monk gives a whack with the stick.... :)

sorry zenman - just couldn't resist - all in good fun :) :rolleyes:

Rapheal · May 24, 2004

Nurses are dumb period. They probably have lesser GPA and stuff than people going into pure scineces, computers, humanities etc. let alone be in comparision with doctors , dentists and lawyers. And they go about saying crap like they can match anyone....then why dont those smartasses come up with ground breaking research. The reason anesthesia became safer in the last 20 years is not because of some stupid CRNAs but because more MDs entered anesth from 60 onwards. The groundbreaking work has been done MDA. CRNAs are the OR scutmonkeys who now wanna ape their creators. Theyinfact have the guts go about doing proganada that nurses were the first to do anesthesia when medical historians clearly give that credit to dentists and docs. Well I guarentee you their infinitely inferior IQs will not survive against MDA......the docs will emerge successful. The US has a tendency to be reactive instead of proactive. When they become the butt of ridicule of the rest of the world for letting para professionals take over they will do something about it. The *** of a CRNA who said he could be as good as say some pioneers of anesthesia, soem of the guys who have done amazing research in say cardiac an, pain etc. is a fool to the core. He talks crap. The guys at Hopkins, Wash U etc. in the research dept. of anesth are sterling. They are geniuses ( many of them are MD, Phds) and a lowly nurse with 2 years of grad education( and I bet they only know the pharm of anesthesia, these guys dont have an idea of many commmon microorganisms, let alone complex physio and path)says he is as good. Well thats free speech ( sounds like saddam saying he can finish the US). Well the ASA wants to make a slight oversupply of MDA...cos shortage means a firmer footing for CRNAs. All medical professionals must join to rid the medical profession of wannabes.

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LOL!!!!! How witty. How articulate. We dumb nurses probally have "lesser GPA's and stuff" but we know how to spell science and 10 gets you 20 that we are better at sentence structure. English 101 is a nursing school requirement. Still LMAO.

z's playa · May 24, 2004

SEE? THAT'S what I was talking about !!!!!!!!

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It's too bad this post is two years old. It would have been fun to get a dialogue going with this character. Or not. :)

nurseunderwater · May 25, 2004

[Nurses are dumb period. They probably have lesser GPA and stuff than people going into pure scineces, computers, humanities etc. let alone be in comparision with doctors , dentists and lawyers. And they go about saying crap like they can match anyone....then why dont those smartasses come up with ground breaking research. The reason anesthesia became safer in the last 20 years is not because of some stupid CRNAs but because more MDs entered anesth from 60 onwards. The groundbreaking work has been done MDA. CRNAs are the OR scutmonkeys who now wanna ape their creators. Theyinfact have the guts go about doing proganada that nurses were the first to do anesthesia when medical historians clearly give that credit to dentists and docs. Well I guarentee you their infinitely inferior IQs will not survive against MDA......the docs will emerge successful. The US has a tendency to be reactive instead of proactive. When they become the butt of ridicule of the rest of the world for letting para professionals take over they will do something about it. The *** of a CRNA who said he could be as good as say some pioneers of anesthesia, soem of the guys who have done amazing research in say cardiac an, pain etc. is a fool to the core. He talks crap. The guys at Hopkins, Wash U etc. in the research dept. of anesth are sterling. They are geniuses ( many of them are MD, Phds) and a lowly nurse with 2 years of grad education( and I bet they only know the pharm of anesthesia, these guys dont have an idea of many commmon microorganisms, let alone complex physio and path)says he is as good. Well thats free speech ( sounds like saddam saying he can finish the US). Well the ASA wants to make a slight oversupply of MDA...cos shortage means a firmer footing for CRNAs. All medical professionals must join to rid the medical profession of wannabes.

I don't believe I have ever seen such an inane load of pompous windbaggery in all my life. :chuckle Next time post something interesting. :rolleyes:

PTU2SLP · May 25, 2004

ptu2slp - agreed that a lot of the postings on studentdoctor.net are very immature and ill-advised.
1) advances in safety have been primarily made by CRNAs: wrong.
2) CRNAs provide anesthesia in 65% of cases - doesn't mention that 70-85% of those cases are supervised by MDAs (medicare data)
just pointing out some misconceptions.
You are right though about no studies showing difference in mortality between CRNAs and MDs...

I was kind of kidding about the safety since the MD's and dentists didn't want the job so it was passed off to nurses, at least until WWII when MD's tried to take it back. but my data for the cases can be supported by the Bechtoldt study where CRNA's practicing alone accounted for over half the anesthetics administered (altohugh that study showed they accounted for 1/2 the deaths too...oops). But the Pine study did show no difference in mortality. But, I feel like this is kind of like arguing politics or religion...there's enough info out there to support any view point. Can't we all just get along?

PA-C in Texas · May 25, 2004

At first glance, this is all very juvenile, but you have to understand the underlying feelings on both sides of the issue. As both non-physician provider and a member of the medical community, some of these things cut both ways for me.

Simply put, its the same old turf war under the guise of important issues like patient safety and health care availability. Medicine fights nursing, nursing fights allied health. Medicine is fighting APN's, nursing fought respiratory therapists and is now fighting paramedics in the ED. SSDD.

Why does medicine fight CRNA's and NP's? I think the underlying reason is simply that medicine feels threatened. Someone posted earlier that there will always be a need for medically-trained anesthesiologists. Why? If CRNA's can provide anesthesia for less money and require less time to train, what is the rationale for even having Anesthesiologists? If Nurse Practitioners can provide primary care and they are cheaper and take less time to train, what is the rationale for having primary care physicians? In the minds of physicians, they see their fields becoming irrelevant.

Let's face it. Medicine isn't what it used to be. Just going to medical school used to mean something, and a doc was a doc. Physicians feel their profession is declining.

Nurses (and myself) see something that we can do. You can provide good anesthesia and I can provide good emergency care. Why shouldn't we be able to do that?

Someone said "nurses are dumb" and someone in this thread said "I hate doctors", so you can tell there is a lot of animosity on both sides.

I never get to work with CRNA's or anesthesiologists, with the exception of one time a CRNA put a kid under so I could reduce a dislocated joint, so I can't really tell you one way or the other. But I can tell you that attitudes on both sides need to change. Doctors need to treat nurses with respect and treat them as professionals and nurses need to stop doing things like implying that doctors don't care about their patients other than to be concerned for the underlying disease process.

globalRN · May 25, 2004

At first glance, this is all very juvenile, but you have to understand the underlying feelings on both sides of the issue. As both non-physician provider and a member of the medical community, some of these things cut both ways for me.
Simply put, its the same old turf war under the guise of important issues like patient safety and health care availability. Medicine fights nursing, nursing fights allied health. Medicine is fighting APN's, nursing fought respiratory therapists and is now fighting paramedics in the ED. SSDD.
Why does medicine fight CRNA's and NP's? I think the underlying reason is simply that medicine feels threatened. Someone posted earlier that there will always be a need for medically-trained anesthesiologists. Why? If CRNA's can provide anesthesia for less money and require less time to train, what is the rationale for even having Anesthesiologists? If Nurse Practitioners can provide primary care and they are cheaper and take less time to train, what is the rationale for having primary care physicians? In the minds of physicians, they see their fields becoming irrelevant.
Let's face it. Medicine isn't what it used to be. Just going to medical school used to mean something, and a doc was a doc. Physicians feel their profession is declining.
Nurses (and myself) see something that we can do. You can provide good anesthesia and I can provide good emergency care. Why shouldn't we be able to do that?
Someone said "nurses are dumb" and someone in this thread said "I hate doctors", so you can tell there is a lot of animosity on both sides.
I never get to work with CRNA's or anesthesiologists, with the exception of one time a CRNA put a kid under so I could reduce a dislocated joint, so I can't really tell you one way or the other. But I can tell you that attitudes on both sides need to change. Doctors need to treat nurses with respect and treat them as professionals and nurses need to stop doing things like implying that doctors don't care about their patients other than to be concerned for the underlying disease process.

Jimmy, that is an excellent post.

If more people would concentrate on providing quality patient care(which necessitates teamwork) and expend less energy dissing other professions.....

jwk · May 25, 2004

At first glance, this is all very juvenile, but you have to understand the underlying feelings on both sides of the issue. As both non-physician provider and a member of the medical community, some of these things cut both ways for me.
Simply put, its the same old turf war under the guise of important issues like patient safety and health care availability. Medicine fights nursing, nursing fights allied health. Medicine is fighting APN's, nursing fought respiratory therapists and is now fighting paramedics in the ED. SSDD.
Why does medicine fight CRNA's and NP's? I think the underlying reason is simply that medicine feels threatened. Someone posted earlier that there will always be a need for medically-trained anesthesiologists. Why? If CRNA's can provide anesthesia for less money and require less time to train, what is the rationale for even having Anesthesiologists? If Nurse Practitioners can provide primary care and they are cheaper and take less time to train, what is the rationale for having primary care physicians? In the minds of physicians, they see their fields becoming irrelevant.
Let's face it. Medicine isn't what it used to be. Just going to medical school used to mean something, and a doc was a doc. Physicians feel their profession is declining.
Nurses (and myself) see something that we can do. You can provide good anesthesia and I can provide good emergency care. Why shouldn't we be able to do that?
Someone said "nurses are dumb" and someone in this thread said "I hate doctors", so you can tell there is a lot of animosity on both sides.
I never get to work with CRNA's or anesthesiologists, with the exception of one time a CRNA put a kid under so I could reduce a dislocated joint, so I can't really tell you one way or the other. But I can tell you that attitudes on both sides need to change. Doctors need to treat nurses with respect and treat them as professionals and nurses need to stop doing things like implying that doctors don't care about their patients other than to be concerned for the underlying disease process.

You're absolutely correct - great post. The respect has to go both ways, and that's the problem with the AA/CRNA debate. You don't see the few AA's commenting on this board saying anything about not having respect for the CRNA's that we work with every day. But the same doesn't hold when you flip it around the other way. CRNA's (and the nurses and students who post on this board) who don't know me or my colleagues can't stand us, and 99% have no idea what they're talking about when they attempt to "inform" others what AA's can or can't do, or what is or isn't legal. All we want to do is take care of our patients.

sonessrna · Jun 13, 2004

Are you that insecure in your job that you have to absolutely insult everyone around you? How immature!!!!!

Here's an Update to the debate
halothane
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A nurse recently on Tonight NBC was asked on Jay Walk as to what body fluid could be passed out everyday in the quantity 1L-20L per day and duh she said blood!!! I can swear never will I ever see a medical student say that let alone a physician. Nurses know stuff by practice but often have gaping holes in their fundamentals....I mean there is really a large gap in their knowledge, they know bits and pieces. If they should be allowed to take over physician roles...let authorities mandate a prerequisite no. of years of training similar to docs. not let them crashcourse their way into medical practice. SAd state of affairs for a developed nation like ours.
My friends who have MBAs and PHDs from ivy leagues barely make 120K and it so ridiculous to see nurses( who probably are the bottom of the academic hierarchy compared to lawyers, MBAs and docs with far fewer years of training)raking in 200K. Stupid, Stupid and anyone who thinks it is right is just a wannabe doc. We do not unionise cause we take a HIpp.Oath. If we drive BMWs its cos we have years of sacrifice and hard work behindus. If we do not strike its only cos we care for our patients and are not in this only for $$ unlike CRNAs who are a bunch of greedy doc. wannabes.

91CRN · Mar 1, 2006

Uuhhhhh, was that for real? Are we paying attention to that? What a bunch of sloppy hatred.

Hoping LVN2BSN · Mar 1, 2006

I'm a CRNA hopeful currently in an LVN program. It sounds to me the "M.D.s" spreading hatefulness are sore they missed the CRNA band wagon and upset they can't turn back the hands of time 4 or 5 years and realize they're closet dream and myth of owning a luxury vehicle right out of med. school instead of the hellacious life they are having.

My greatest pleasure would be smiling in the face of one of these hateful people as they realize their greatest nightmare, a Nurse putting them under! :devil:

UCDSICURN · Mar 1, 2006

:deadhorse