Certified nursing assistants not welcome!

[Barbie8808]

So first let me say I myself am a certified nursing assistant so this will not be a blog discriminating against CNA's. But more of a venting session if I must. I was recently invited to a SECRET black nurse organization on one of the most popular social media sites on the web. I was ecstatic to be invited and love every moment of it as I saw it as a chance to receive a wealth of information and access to resources as I am a learning nursing student as well. But this quickly faded as the swarms of members joined and it turned it into a Picture gallery of single sexy nurses across the nation. I'm leading to an event that prompted the admin to make a list of rules one of them being if your not an actual NURSE (lpn or RN) or a nursing student you cannot be apart of this group. Now in my head I'm like whats the discrimination for; cna's are the back bone to nursing itself.As more and more time goes by CNA's are not just helping with toileting and feeding needs (Which to me nursing should be a holistic approach and contributes the overall treatment to the patient) we possess phlebotomy skills and more on the job more skills such ng tube feeds iv and more. It lead to comments being thrown around like "no offense to CNA's but I work hard for my nursing license" "They can join when they become an actual nurse" which never lead to my question which is "SHOULD CNA'S NOT BE INCLUDED IN THE REALM OF NURSING?"

[klone, MSN, RN]

And I'm sorry, but I still consider IV starts, phlebotomy and Foley insertion as "tasks" and tasks can be learned by anyone. I don't care if a CNA or MA does it, as long as they were properly trained.

[klone, MSN, RN]

Ummmm......what?

8 weeks for nursing school?

The poster in question specified RNs who can be trained at the diploma level (rare but historically diploma programs graduated some awesome nurses) Associate of Nursing (about 1- 2 years pre-reqs and two years core nursing courses) Bachelor of Science in Nursing (four year degree including the pre-/co-reqs and core classes) accelerated Bachelor of Science in Nursing (condensed but typically around 18 months I believe) and Direct Entry Master of Science in Nursing (not very familiar with this program)

Point being no one becomes eligible to sit for NCLEX-RN in 8 wks.

SMH

She didn't say a nursing program was 8 weeks, but that there are nursing classes that are 8 weeks in length.

[vintagemother, BSN, CNA, LVN, RN]

The east coast does seem to have a more broad scope for CNAs, based on what I've read here, as compared to where I live--West Coast.

In my area, though, there are PCTs, NAs, CNAs, Med Techs as well as ED Techs.

They are all "aide" positions, but some have a more broad scope than others.....

[Barbie8808]

Yes!!!!! I assume you guys mostly use 18g incase you have to rush the person to surgery.

[OCNRN63, RN]

As more and more time goes by CNA's are not just helping with toileting and feeding needs (Which to me nursing should be a holistic approach and contributes the overall treatment to the patient) we possess phlebotomy skills and more on the job more skills such ng tube feeds iv and more. It lead to comments being thrown around like "no offense to CNA's but I work hard for my nursing license" "They can join when they become an actual nurse" which never lead to my question which is "SHOULD CNA'S NOT BE INCLUDED IN THE REALM OF NURSING?"

Nursing is more than just a list of tasks/skills to be completed. When a nurse asses a patient, s/he synthesizes that data and develops a plan of care. Whether it's a complex POC, or something such as calling a physician with an SBAR, the nurse is using that information to develop a course of action for the patient.

CNAs are important members of the health care team, and on many units, nurses could not get their work done without them. But they are no more members of nursing than are respiratory therapists, PT, pharmacy, etc. All of them are important members of the health care team, but they aren't "nursing."

[OCNRN63, RN]

As a CNA I can say that when I come into work, we (CNA'S) do vitals, wash, dress, feed, transport on and off the unit within the facility's do mouth care, and pressure sore treatments (THIS IS THE TRUTH) the LPN's give the treatments to us to do while providing peri care. They also have started making us change the 02, mask and everything else associated with the residents oxygen, even labeling and dating them. I rarely see the nurses and when I do the RN'S are just supervising(I can't speak to what they do in the nurses office) and the LPN'S are passing medication and that's IT! That's just my experience, not trying to downplay anyone as a Nurse their position or title. I respect ALL people working in the nursing Department, no matter the title!

Wow...this is wrong, for so many reasons.

[OCNRN63, RN]

I have no clue what type of nurse you are but Have you check Rn programs these days lpn are one year and certificate nurses are 2. There are accelerate programs where classes last only eight weeks for nursing students. I will say this nurses and doctors are the hardest patients to take care of because they swear they know everything. New nurses come out of school having the most basic phlebotomy skills.(and by that I mean nursing schools only let you practice on dummy arms) Any skill that you learn is a skill you must practice.I dont know why people assume that nursing students learn the nursing skills from other nurses and cna's and techs learn their skills I guess from monkeys. Dont sit up here and say you rather have a nurse do your iv or foley because what you dont know is the tech may have far more experience then the nurse. IN MY cna class I was taught how to do iv, foleys and douches lol. not to show my age but its true. I guess when you go to the dentist to get your teeth clean only the dentist can touch your teeth not the dental assistant !!!! lol

Again, one more time for emphasis: There is more to nursing that just skills/tasks.

I would have my teeth cleaned by a dental assistant/hygienist, because they went through an educational program that includes taking an exam to obtain a license. There is no comparison between a health care role that has clearly defined objectives that have to be met in order to obtain a license v. a role whose educational program may vary depending on where the student attends.

And yes, I would most definitely prefer to have a nurse do my cath or start my IV (in my case, access my mediport). Not because of the actual task, but because I know that nurse will also be assessing me. CNAs are not permitted to perform patient assessments.

[ixchel]

In OB it was standard to use an 18g catheter for an IV. I didn't even bat an eye at that.

Was that recently? I only ask because EBP leans toward using the smaller gauge necessary to do the job. So in the expectation of an average birth, it's not likely you'd need larger than 22 or 20 (if you think faster administration of more fluids might be needed). A cesarean would make me think bigger might be better, especially if you have someone known to be a bleeder.

[Susie2310]

I really believe we sell ourselves short as nurses if we say that IV insertion and foley insertion are just tasks that can be done by anyone. IV insertion and foley insertion actually do require nursing assessment and nursing judgement. Yes, it is possible to perform these actions in a rote manner, but there is much greater risk of complications for the patient. For instance, with IV insertion, one needs to know what medications/concentrations/IV fluids will be infused as the pH and other factors, including the patient's condition, will affect one's choice of a suitable vein and of the IV gauge/length; one needs to know if the patient has a dialysis shunt so one can avoid using that arm; it is helpful to know if the patient is taking blood thinners, and so forth. With foley insertion one needs to know, for example, if the patient has any medical conditions that could make it difficult to insert the foley, and to be prepared for these problems, and to know what actions to take if these problems arise, or if other problems arise, such as bleeding.

When we perform these procedures, as with any procedures, we should be using the nursing process; once we have performed our assessment and performed our intervention we have to evaluate the outcome of the intervention, i.e. is the IV running properly; is the patient experiencing any pain at the site; is there any swelling at the site, and with the foley, is it draining and how much; how did the patient tolerate the procedure, etc. All this involves critical thinking, knowledge of our patient's medical problems, knowledge of the reasons for performing the procedure, as well as knowledge of the procedure. So these procedures are much more than "tasks."

[Barbie8808]

Again, one more time for emphasis: There is more to nursing that just skills/tasks.

And yes, I would most definitely prefer to have a nurse do my cath or start my IV (in my case, access my mediport). Not because of the actual task, but because I know that nurse will also be assessing me. CNAs are not permitted to perform patient assessments.

In your case I would not be touching your MEDIPORT CENTRAL LINE OR PICC. Cna's also go through an educational program thats approved by the state. We also have to take a written and practical exam to receive our certification. CNA/TECH cannnot Stick an iv in a patient at random it has to recommended by a doctor or a nurse who will do the initial assessment. If the Nurse or Doctor deem it appropriate It will be delegated to me perform the task.

[ixchel]

In your case I would not be touching your MEDIPORT CENTRAL LINE OR PICC. Cna's also go through an educational program thats approved by the state. We also have to take a written and practical exam to receive our certification. CNA/TECH cannnot Stick an iv in a patient at random it has to recommended by a doctor or a nurse who will do the initial assessment. If the Nurse or Doctor deem it appropriate It will be delegated to me perform the task.

This is your most logical, accurate post in this thread.

[Barbie8808]

For instance, with IV insertion, one needs to know what medications/concentrations/IV fluids will be infused as the pH and other factors, including the patient's condition, will affect one's choice of a suitable vein and of the IV gauge/length; one needs to know if the patient has a dialysis shunt so one can avoid using that arm; it is helpful to know if the patient is taking blood thinners, and so forth.

Techs cannot run Fluid's as it is a medication. Also If I'm your tech I think its important to tell me whether that person is a dialysis patient so I can avoid that particular arm as well. I think that people are taking my words a little to literal and assume that As a tech I just go to work and say "hmmm I wonder who I'm going to blindly stick an iv or foley into today" I cannot perform any task unless the nurse delegates it to me. We have open communication. Nurses have far more education then a tech TRUE , but dat does not stop iv's from infiltrating.that does not stop catheter's that are left in to long or not clean properly from getting infections. So No I do Not want Nurses to sell themselves short.I appreciate everything nurses do. But I will not let Nurses take all the credit. I will not be made to believe that the only attribute I make to the nursing world is to do grunt work. Because I believe wiping *** is in both of our job descriptions. If we were not needed trust me Im sure I would not have a job.