Certified nursing assistants not welcome!

[Barbie8808]

So first let me say I myself am a certified nursing assistant so this will not be a blog discriminating against CNA's. But more of a venting session if I must. I was recently invited to a SECRET black nurse organization on one of the most popular social media sites on the web. I was ecstatic to be invited and love every moment of it as I saw it as a chance to receive a wealth of information and access to resources as I am a learning nursing student as well. But this quickly faded as the swarms of members joined and it turned it into a Picture gallery of single sexy nurses across the nation. I'm leading to an event that prompted the admin to make a list of rules one of them being if your not an actual NURSE (lpn or RN) or a nursing student you cannot be apart of this group. Now in my head I'm like whats the discrimination for; cna's are the back bone to nursing itself.As more and more time goes by CNA's are not just helping with toileting and feeding needs (Which to me nursing should be a holistic approach and contributes the overall treatment to the patient) we possess phlebotomy skills and more on the job more skills such ng tube feeds iv and more. It lead to comments being thrown around like "no offense to CNA's but I work hard for my nursing license" "They can join when they become an actual nurse" which never lead to my question which is "SHOULD CNA'S NOT BE INCLUDED IN THE REALM OF NURSING?"

[JustBeachyNurse, LPN]

Do phlebotomist and respiratory therapist work directly under the supervision of a nurse???

Rarely. See above

[JustBeachyNurse, LPN]

Where I work you have to be certified as a cna ma or emt. You can not be just any joe smoe off the streets with no BACK GROUP

I think you mean background. But EMTs and MAs are under the medical model and work under physician protocols in other settings. They are not taught the nursing model of care. EMTs are most definitely not trained in ECG, IV, any type of enteral feeding, or Foley catheter insertion or care. In many states enteral feeding (NG, NJ, GT, GJ) cannot be delegated to an unlicensed assistive personnel (whether EMT MA CNA PCA PCT NA or any other title) other than a patient primary caregiver for discharge purposes. If you cannot check placement you had better not be initiating or maintaining an enteral tube feeding it is imperative that placement is verified at the start and if there is any issues during or post feed. The risk is great especially for an NG or NJ tube!

Phlebotomy is a skilled task that can be taught and delegated in a hands on setting but in several facilities I worked non certified phlebotomist were barred from anything other than basic labs due to issues with specimen handling & prep (such as ionized calcium that requires special handling post draw and blood cultures--poor technique, poor skin preparation inappropriate specimen size, improper handling resulted in excessive contamination and false positive results that could have resulted in devastating consequences if the MLT in microbiology didn't catch the pattern!)

In some states physician protocol and facility p&p dictate what UAPs can do, however there may be differences in the NPA as to what an RN or LPN can legally delegatenm

[lahryn18]

Girrrrrl... the things you are saying are just ridiculous! Not anywhere can a CNA, PCT, ma, etc... do all things you claim you're allowed to. Whatever you were saying about CNAs being the "backbone of nursing" or the "foundation of nursing"... Just ignorant and insulting really. I believe CNAs are a great asset and a great tool to add to the healthcare team. Most CNAs I work with are wonderful and I know I can trust them to do what is asked and do it well. However, it is CNAs like you that make me scared. There are a few that think they know everything and don't ask questions (which, again, I feel that you are like this) which really makes me nervous. Just because I can do your job does not mean you can do mine. CNAs, like I said, can be great assets to our healthcare team, but please don't argue with us if we delegate a task to you. We aren't trying to be lazy (unfortunately a few are trying to be lazy but most aren't.) because all it comes down to CNAs cannot do everything an RN can. Honestly, we aren't just trying to talk down to you or use you. I'm sensing anger towards nurses and I honestly wonder where that's coming from... Sorry if I got on my soapbox a little, this poster has seemed to get under my skin. Bravo!

[Kystudentrn]

I can see both sides of the coin here. I was a Cna for two years before I became a pct. I recently became a nurse extern with one year of nursing school left. At the hospital I'm employed pcas and pcts work in every department. This includes icu/ccu and emergency. Could the hospital function without them. I'd love to see them try. Nurses are already drowning now. That being said here a our pcas can and are taught to d/c foleys and IVs. Our pcts can do ekgs and lab draws. Externs can do all plus foley insertion and ng tubes. Now I'm sure I'll offend everybody next but oh well. Let's be honest, over the last couple of years nurses have gotten some pretty swollen heads and egos. i get what you're saying but at the same time...get over yourself. No, cnas are not nurses but treating the people in the most disrespected underpaid job in the history of employment like peasants isn't going to make them inclined to go that extra mile for you. To the cnas. Rn school is a very hard program and getting through it seems like I miracle in itself so it can be a little offensive when cnas act like nurses. Just learn everything you can and take any training you're offered by your faculty if you want to stay in that role. You'll always have my respect.

[kbrn2002, ADN, RN]

Color me confused...is there any place where a CNA's scope of practice includes phlebotomy, NG tubes and IV's? That certainly isn't the case where I live. I am also a little lost about your reference to a SECRET black nurse organization that gained a huge number of members that like to post sexy pictures. I may be misunderstanding the point, but does this mean a group of black nurses or something else entirely? Doesn't sound like a typical nurses organization, nor does it sound too secret. Either way, if it is a private club they are certainly entitled to limit membership to licensed nurses and nursing students only if they choose.

That being said, CNA's by their very title of Certified Nursing Assistant are indeed part of the nursing community, and a very important part at that.

[Kystudentrn]

Now I can only speak for the hospital where I am but I can clarify a few thing as I've worked ltc as well. A Cna and hospital pca are basically the same thing. Yes some hospitals do teach their pcas to dc foleys and IVs. A pct is a pca who's been through a hospital taught phlebotomy and ekg training program. Finally a nurse extern at our hospital are employees who are in their final year of nursing school and upon completion and licensing are transitioned to a rn position. As you can see there is a progression of skill and knowledge. However in long term care it is a much different story. The cnas are trusted with nothing at the ltc facility I worked at. We weren't even authorized to perform cpr or the Heimlich maneuver on a choking patient

[Hygiene Queen]

I know how I feel may not be the reality, but I do believe CNA's are part of the nursing team. They are not nurses but assist and take delegation from the nurses, doing the most basic of nursing care, so I guess I feel that makes them part of the nursing team. If you're good enough to work your butt off to provide personal care for my patients, then you're good enough to be on my team. That's just my opinion, though.

[Kystudentrn]

That's how I would feel too. I see far too many nurses who are almost arrogant about their position. There is no need for that. Yes, they are above cnas in skill level and education. However, I'll be honest I've met a few smart and quick learning cnas as well. There will probably always be a pissing contest between cnas and rns. In the end though it's important to remember we're all on the same team and its the patients health and safest that really matter.

[Kystudentrn]

Safety not safest

[ixchel]

That's how I would feel too. I see far too many nurses who are almost arrogant about their position. There is no need for that. Yes, they are above cnas in skill level and education. However, I'll be honest I've met a few smart and quick learning cnas as well. There will probably always be a pissing contest between cnas and rns. In the end though it's important to remember we're all on the same team and its the patients health and safest that really matter.

I'm having a hard time finding the words to respond without coming across as "arrogant".

When you say, "Yes, they are above cnas in skill level and education. However, I'll be honest I've met a few smart and quick learning cnas as well." are you suggesting that these 'quick' learning CNAs are advanced in knowledge to the degree of an RN?

There is no pissing contest between CNAs and RNs. It is very clear what each can do, and there should be no power struggle here. Nursing practice acts clearly state what each does. It's also clear that CNAs become CNAs though programs that last maybe a couple of months. RNs go through at least two years of education learning the biology and chemistry of the body, it's disease processes, psycho-social issues, legal issues, community and global health issues, dissemination of research, and what we need to accomplish in the care of people, whether it be individuals or populations of people. Very little of that is going to be picked up by the "smart and quick learning" CNAs unless they enjoy reading textbooks for fun. (Hey, I won't knock the person who does that. I geek out on textbooks, too.)

By your screenname, I take it you're a student. Please take this in the gentlest way possible - right now, you don't know what you don't know. That's not your fault, nor would I ever consider it a shortcoming. You just haven't gotten there yet. Even as you sit the NCLEX, you still will have this whole world of knowledge not yet gained.

Perhaps the RNs who come across as arrogant are simply short spoken when they delegate care. Maybe they ARE arrogant and don't feel they need to explain themselves. Or, perhaps, they've reached a level of confidence in their own practice and it comes across as arrogance. Whatever it is, I assure you they are in no pissing contest with the CNAs. They don't need to be. They have their own license and scope of practice, and with it, a whole truckload of responsibilities that they're knee deep in trying to get through.

[Kystudentrn]

Looking back on my posts I think I was very clear in my position on Cna knowledge being not equal to an rn. I also never recall stating that a smart Cna is the equivalent of a rn. It's a clever but ineffective twisting of my post.

Let me also say you're right. I'm in my 4th year of my bsn and like you I am a textbook need. However I feel you may need to pump the breaks a little on "you don't know what you don't know". Prior to my time as a extern, pct, and Cna I spent 11 years as a Navy corpsman. This includes 3 tours in Iraq dealing with some of the most horrific levels of trauma imaginable. I'm not the average nursing student by a long shot.

You are absolutely right UAPs and RNs have very clearly defined roles and there is no need for ruffled feathers between the two.

There just are sometimes.

[Barbie8808]

Im back after a long weekend and I must say Thank you to all that having been commenting standing up for CNA's. I was feeling a little beat up and frustrated after continuously explaining myself to people. Accusing me of lying about what I do At the two hospitals I work at(which are not ltc or nursing homes or hospice) Like why would I have to lie about what I do. That doesn't even make sense. One even question my competence by asking weather or not a stick a 18 g needle in patients.(If you think I'm sticking a 18g needle in little old miss annie whose a hard stick to begin with then so be it lol) '__' I had to continuously repeat that I am not trying to take the place or falsely call myself a nurse. And when I do become a nurse my fight for CNA's will not sop I will continue to advocate that we are treated fairly or with respect. Thank you all it was fun weather good or bad the engagement I shared is preparing me for the adversities I may face for my shift as a tech tomorrow and as a nurse in the future!!!