I was recently diagnosed with Lupus and am anxiously awaiting my Rheumatology appointment. While I have been waiting I have been in a lot of pain when I have my flares, so I have put in a request to see a pain management specialist. I told my husband AND my father this and they BOTH suggested I try CBD oil. What the what??? I have told my husband and father several times that since CBD/marijuana is federally ILLEGAL if I take a drug test and pop positive for it I could lose my license or have to report to TPAPN, I don't know which one is worse.
They both told me since I am not working that I should try the CBD oil. Uh, no. I am applying for telecommuting positions. What if I get an interview on Monday and they want me to take a drug test the same day? But I've been using the CBD oil so I have to reject the interview/job/etc all because I couldn't wait to get a legal prescription from a provider.
My husband, I will give him a pass. He is not the brightest crayon in the box. Never was and never will be. But my father, he has a bachelor's degree and has common sense. So I don't know why he doesn't understand this.
There seems to be two extremes on this issue without much in-between. There are those who claim CBD is a cure-all, which it's not, and those who claim it's all a sham, which is equally incorrect. I get that in the general public the stigmatized view of marijuana derivatives tends to override the evidence, but it's disappointing that the one group you would expect to take a more informed view, nurses, seem to have a view that is at least as ignorance-fueled as that of lay-people.
CBD's role in the treatment of a number of conditions is well established, and with an evidence base that is on-par with more mainstream commonly prescribed medications. In many cases it's either more effective than other commonly used medications, or carries fewer adverse effects with comparable efficacy.
I totally agree with that. But the current situation for many bearers of professional licences is what it is - total lack of tolerance to pretty much everything. It is not much likely to change any time soon for numerous reasons, both professional and public-related. And, unfortunately, we all are just stuck in there.
I regularly see patients who buy locally grown and produced CBT cooked only God knows where and how in supposedly "regulated" state and use it, sometimes with great effect. I wouldn't bother about it except that the pain management offices bump them out sometimes for positive urine and hairs immunoassay tests. I even asked the Quest rep and he had no clear answer except that he wouldn't advice someone with potential to get into trouble to use it. By his words, go ahead and use it if it works for you if you are a farmer, but if you drive big trucks for job, then stick with your doc's scripts. Although we both agreed that it would be idiotic from medical point of view.
Likewise, despite of my deep love of everything with poppy seeds in it, I wouldn't advice anybody to have more than a tiny little sprinkle of them at a time if the person can be randomly tested for opioids. And I wouldn't advice such person to stick to Atkins diet either.
And I do not even mention the fact that many hospitals use cheaper test systems which can be stored under less than optimal temperature conditions and so became even more prone to cross-reactivity.
There are just too many ifs, ands and buts in the equation, and you know what happens with licensed health care professionals who got positive. There are ways to prove one's innocence in such situation, but even making it straight ftom one false-positive is unnerving enough. That's just a fact of life for all of us in the USA, 2018. So, unless the OP is going to work only in enviroinment where there will not be any possibility ever to be called in and asked to go pee in a cup, I wouldn't advice it.
What I would advice is finding a GOOD rheumatologist, because LE is getting to be a sort of umbrella term for many cases nobody really knows what to do with.
I was recently diagnosed with Lupus and am anxiously awaiting my Rheumatology appointment. While I have been waiting I have been in a lot of pain when I have my flares, so I have put in a request to see a pain management specialist. I told my husband AND my father this and they BOTH suggested I try CBD oil. What the what??? I have told my husband and father several times that since CBD/marijuana is federally ILLEGAL if I take a drug test and pop positive for it I could lose my license or have to report to TPAPN, I don't know which one is worse.
They both told me since I am not working that I should try the CBD oil. Uh, no. I am applying for telecommuting positions. What if I get an interview on Monday and they want me to take a drug test the same day? But I've been using the CBD oil so I have to reject the interview/job/etc all because I couldn't wait to get a legal prescription from a provider.
My husband, I will give him a pass. He is not the brightest crayon in the box. Never was and never will be. But my father, he has a bachelor's degree and has common sense. So I don't know why he doesn't understand this.
I would treat this advise the same as if a layperson suggested eplerenone for hypertension.
CBD might be a great drug, but lay people are neither pharmacist or practitioners, even if they have access to Google.
Specializes in M/S, LTC, Corrections, PDN & drug rehab.
Mr_Edwino said:
I think a bit of clarity is in order here.
According to the quest laboratories information page (the largest drug screening company for healthcare personnel in the United states), the urinalysis for THC tests for the THC metabolite THC-COOH (11-Nor-9-carboxy-Δ9-tetrahydrocannabinol). Marijuana Metabolites (THC 5� ng/mL)Clinical Screen with Confirmation (28722)
CBD is a different compound than THC entirely, and has a different molecular structure than that of THC (contains an additional hydroxyl group), it actually functions as an antagonist (blocks the receptor) in the cannabinoid receptors and is NON-PSYCHOTROPIC. In layman's terms, CBC will actually counteract THC in the body if a person were to consume both substances. CBD and the Psychedelic Receptor | Project CBD
Both THC-COOH and OH 7-COOH are carboxyl groups, but only one is tested in a urinalysis (They are very different chemically). Because CBD does not inherently contain THC, the THC-COOH metabolite cannot be synthesized. Even IF a CBD supplement were to contain as much as .3% THC content(this is the maximum), that is an exceedingly minuscule amount that would not indicate on the standard 50ng (or not even a 5ng test) THC screening.
I think if you use CBD topically for your rheumatism, there is an astronomically low possibly (even if you are using an absurdly high dosage of CBD oil) of popping positive on a urinalysis for THC.
Maybe your husband is a lot smarter than you think...
There is still THC in CBD (Because where does the CBD come from? A marijuana plant!) & if I took it, would lead to a false positive. Which has already been mentioned.
By the way, neither my husband or father new I could be tested & have my license revoked even if I'm not working. My husband knew even less, so no, he's not that smart.
There is still THC in CBD (Because where does the CBD come from? A marijuana plant!) & if I took it, would lead to a false positive. Which has already been mentioned.
This would be a totally nonscientific experiment but has anybody that has used it been tested to see if it does cause a positive? I still don't think I'd trust it, but enquiring minds want to know.
You're only partially correct here. Yes, it comes from the hemp plant, but full spectrum CBD oils do indeed have THC, even though it's usually less than 0.3% which can show up positive on a drug test.
This would be a totally nonscientific experiment but has anybody that has used it been tested to see if it does cause a positive? I still don't think I'd trust it, but enquiring minds want to know.
I have read some people say that yes they have shown positive. Some were from labs and others were from home test kits, but I did see the photographic evidence of their results.
According to the quest laboratories information page (the largest drug screening company for healthcare personnel in the United states), the urinalysis for THC tests for the THC metabolite THC-COOH (11-Nor-9-carboxy-Δ9-tetrahydrocannabinol). Marijuana Metabolites (THC 5� ng/mL)Clinical Screen with Confirmation (28722)
CBD is a different compound than THC entirely, and has a different molecular structure than that of THC (contains an additional hydroxyl group), it actually functions as an antagonist (blocks the receptor) in the cannabinoid receptors and is NON-PSYCHOTROPIC. In layman's terms, CBC will actually counteract THC in the body if a person were to consume both substances. CBD and the Psychedelic Receptor | Project CBD
Both THC-COOH and OH 7-COOH are carboxyl groups, but only one is tested in a urinalysis (They are very different chemically). Because CBD does not inherently contain THC, the THC-COOH metabolite cannot be synthesized. Even IF a CBD supplement were to contain as much as .3% THC content(this is the maximum), that is an exceedingly minuscule amount that would not indicate on the standard 50ng (or not even a 5ng test) THC screening.
I think if you use CBD topically for your rheumatism, there is an astronomically low possibly (even if you are using an absurdly high dosage of CBD oil) of popping positive on a urinalysis for THC.
Maybe your husband is a lot smarter than you think...
I have read some conflicting evidence to this. The CBD can actually block the enzyme that breaks down THC and so if you use a full spectrum product that contains 0.3% of THC, the THC will not be broken down and will be stored in fat. If a full spectrum CBD is used frequently for a long period of time, it can indeed exceed the level of 50 ng/mL that would trigger a positive test.
And for those who were asking for some research-based evidence, there does appear to be some promising research into its anti-inflammatory properties:
CBD has anti-inflammatory effects in a murine model of acute lung injury that appear to be mediated by the A2A receptor injury.18 LPS-induced inflammation in mice was reduced by the administration of a single dose of 20 mg/kg of CBD. The effects included neutrophil migration into the lungs, albumin concentration in the bronchoalveolar lavage fluid, myeloperoxidase activity in the lung tissue, and production of TNF and IL-6 and chemokines (MCP-1 and MIP-2). The A2A antagonist ZM241385 inhibited all of these actions implicating this receptor in the anti-inflammatory effects of CBD.
One of the animal models for multiple sclerosis, Theiler's murine encephalomyelitis virus-induced demyelinating disease (TMEV), is accompanied by inflammation. In this model, CBD decreased leukocyte infiltration in the brains of TMEV-infected animals and it also significantly reduced microglial activation in the cerebral cortex.19 In addition, the levels of the pro inflammatory cytokines TNF-? and IL-1? were reduced.
It was reported that CBD, studied at 1, 5 and 10 bM, decreased the production and release of pro inflammatory cytokines such as interleukin-1b, interleukin-6, and interferon-b, from LPS-activated BV-2 microglial cells
Although it was discovered early on, CBD has become a major area of research only in recent years. In particular, its biological actions are a topic of many interesting reports that suggest possible therapeutic applications. Included are its anti inflammatory actions in a variety of preclinical models (Table 1). Some examples are experimental colitis, collagen-induced arthritis, ?-amyloid-induced neuroinflammation, neutrophil chemotaxis, hepatic ischemia-reperfusion (I/R) injury, autoimmune encephalomyelitis, acute lung injury (ALI), etc. These and others need to be pursued in human trials with a view toward clinical applications where CBD's absence of psychotropic effects and other adverse events offers a major advantage over other cannabinoids.
Burstein, S. (2015). Cannabidiol (CBD) and its analogs: a review of their effects on inflammation. Bioorganic & medicinal chemistry, 23(7), 1377-1385.
I have read some people say that yes they have shown positive. Some were from labs and others were from home test kits, but I did see the photographic evidence of their results.
I tried to look for results too, I couldn't find anything conclusive, and we don't know that those that tested positive were also ingesting other cannabis products with THC.
I was curious as to how much THC comes from marijuana for the typical user and I found that the typical THC yield from a joint/bowl is about 10mg. This number varies widely according to method and potency of the product being consumed, but for this example we'll just double that and use 20mg. Now after the body metabolizes the THC and the rest is stored in fat, they measure the trace amounts in nanograms in order to locate those carboxyls (THC-COOH). I checked a few different CBD products and the average dose was about 5-6mg of CBD, stronger products had 10mg.
Even IF there was .3% THC in CBD:
10mg x .3% (.003)=.03mg of THC in a 10mg dosage.
so if you vaped CBD you would lose 30% of the THC content, so now were at .009mg of THC, which is about .09% of the amount of THC from marijuana.
Since CBD is used topically for arthritis, and doesn't have to be vaped, you would ingest less far less than .009mg of THC per dose into the blood stream (there is no known scientific evidence that THC can enter the bloodstream via topically through the skin). Assuming you are using the maximum dose of 10mg of a topical CBD oil topically, the amount of THC-COOH cannabinoids found in the body would not even be trace.
KatieMI, BSN, MSN, RN
1 Article; 2,675 Posts
I totally agree with that. But the current situation for many bearers of professional licences is what it is - total lack of tolerance to pretty much everything. It is not much likely to change any time soon for numerous reasons, both professional and public-related. And, unfortunately, we all are just stuck in there.
I regularly see patients who buy locally grown and produced CBT cooked only God knows where and how in supposedly "regulated" state and use it, sometimes with great effect. I wouldn't bother about it except that the pain management offices bump them out sometimes for positive urine and hairs immunoassay tests. I even asked the Quest rep and he had no clear answer except that he wouldn't advice someone with potential to get into trouble to use it. By his words, go ahead and use it if it works for you if you are a farmer, but if you drive big trucks for job, then stick with your doc's scripts. Although we both agreed that it would be idiotic from medical point of view.
Likewise, despite of my deep love of everything with poppy seeds in it, I wouldn't advice anybody to have more than a tiny little sprinkle of them at a time if the person can be randomly tested for opioids. And I wouldn't advice such person to stick to Atkins diet either.
And I do not even mention the fact that many hospitals use cheaper test systems which can be stored under less than optimal temperature conditions and so became even more prone to cross-reactivity.
There are just too many ifs, ands and buts in the equation, and you know what happens with licensed health care professionals who got positive. There are ways to prove one's innocence in such situation, but even making it straight ftom one false-positive is unnerving enough. That's just a fact of life for all of us in the USA, 2018. So, unless the OP is going to work only in enviroinment where there will not be any possibility ever to be called in and asked to go pee in a cup, I wouldn't advice it.
What I would advice is finding a GOOD rheumatologist, because LE is getting to be a sort of umbrella term for many cases nobody really knows what to do with.