Camera phones in the ER

[LeahJet]

The other day, while in triage, I was confronted by a woman. I had triaged her earlier....she had an abscess that probably needed I&D, therefore she needed a room in the area of our ED where we put our lacs and abscesses. I had informed her at triage that we did not have any rooms open and told her I would call her back when one was available.

In the meantime, she saw me triage a couple of cough/backs pains to the Fast Track. This was the source of her disgruntlement.

As she verbally attacked me and called me a "liar"....I tried in vain to explain why she needed a special room and why the others were called back ahead of her. (I can understand her initial confusion) But the woman was so busy calling me names...she refused to listen.

Usually I don't argue.

This time, the point was so simple.... I just knew I could make her understand.

Silly me.

ANYway..... I looked over this woman's shoulder and I see her 15-16 year old son taking my picture with his phone. I tell him "You do NOT have my permission to take my picture" and then I summon security who had been lurking in the shadows until this point. The security officer asks the young man, "did you take her picture?" Well, duh.....GUESS what the guy says?

"no"

The security guy considered the case closed I guess because he then goes back to his corner.

There are soooo many picture/video phones out there. I know we have policies about pts privacy and rights....but what about OURS? I felt somewhat violated and even perceived a veiled threat in there.

Just wondering if any of you...ER or elsewhere in the hospital... have had a simular situation and what your hospital/security does about it.

[teiladay]

There is basically one reason why medical facilities don't want cams/vids... because people have successfully sued and use what was in the photo/vid as evidence. As you know, it is virtually impossible to refute whats on video or in a photograph, especially in a medical setting.

If hospitals were required to vid each invasive procedure, I bet the amount of eh.. "mistakes" would drop..

Teila K. Day

[tvccrn, ASN, RN]

There is basically one reason why medical facilities don't want cams/vids... because people have successfully sued and use what was in the photo/vid as evidence. As you know, it is virtually impossible to refute whats on video or in a photograph, especially in a medical setting.

If hospitals were required to vid each invasive procedure, I bet the amount of eh.. "mistakes" would drop..

Teila K. Day

it's also very easy with the software these days to manipulate video/pictures to change circumstances.

I certainly don't want pictures taken of me without my permission. not for fear of lawsuit, but because I won't be held responsible when my image causes the camera to break.

tvccrn

[ERNP]

There is an occasional appropriate use for a camera phone.

Not long ago had a patient with a strange dermatologic condition. Consulting with derm, he mentioned it would be great if he could see the condition himself.

VOILA!! photo consent from patient, camera phone photo, and photo sent to derm who confirmed we were on the right track.

[Spidey's mom, ADN, BSN, RN]

There is an occasional appropriate use for a camera phone.

Not long ago had a patient with a strange dermatologic condition. Consulting with derm, he mentioned it would be great if he could see the condition himself.

VOILA!! photo consent from patient, camera phone photo, and photo sent to derm who confirmed we were on the right track.

We have telemedicine for that. Our hospital is rural and it is great to be able to have consults over tv.

steph

[LeahJet, ASN, RN]

I do understand that that it was not Illegal for someone to take my photo. That was never a question, really.

I guess I was just basically bringing it to people's attention and wondering if there was some ideas about how this type of situation could be avoided.

Once, security caught a woman taking pictures of a hallway pt. (drunk person passed out) with a disposible camera. She said she was going to send it to the local news to show how we "treated our pts". The camera was confiscated by security.

I know there is a difference there.....HIPAA and all..... but I think cameras in the ER are a bad idea.

And, too, I must admit.....I was wondering if I were the only one that would feel offended. Unlike filming a birth or other procedure, this was strictly for the intent of intimidation.

[Altra, BSN, RN]

I do understand that that it was not Illegal for someone to take my photo. That was never a question, really.

I guess I was just basically bringing it to people's attention and wondering if there was some ideas about how this type of situation could be avoided.

Once, security caught a woman taking pictures of a hallway pt. (drunk person passed out) with a disposible camera. She said she was going to send it to the local news to show how we "treated our pts". The camera was confiscated by security.

I know there is a difference there.....HIPAA and all..... but I think cameras in the ER are a bad idea.

And, too, I must admit.....I was wondering if I were the only one that would feel offended. Unlike filming a birth or other procedure, this was strictly for the intent of intimidation.

No, you're not the only one ... I'm totally w/ya on this.

My hospital prominently displays signs that cell phones are not permitted in clinical areas, with mixed results. The patient/family member who would be so bold as to take your picture probably isn't going to heed the signs.

[TazziRN, RN]

Despite the arguments about whether or not it is safe to have cell phones used in the hospital, ours has a strict policy about it. Cells are not even to be on while in the building. As for your pic being taken, there wasn't much the guard could do about it other than asking him to turn it off, but for a privacy violation like that (if pts are protected from people like that, then we should be too) I would have called the cops and filed a report for harassment.

Last year we had a doc in the ER who took a tech's photo without her permission, and when she asked him to delete it he refused. He was reported to admin and fired, and was forced to delete the pic by his boss. We don't know if he had downloaded it already, but at least it was deleted from the camera.

[andhow5, BSN, RN]

Eh... That would make me uneasy to have my photo taken. I would have asked him to delete the image since he had not obtained my permission prior to taking the picture, but I'm sure he would've laughed and said something like, "Make me."

As far as triage goes, I'm a TOTAL **** magnet, but I use a phrase that helps somewhat:

"Right now I don't have any of the special rooms that are APPROPRIATE for your complaint, but I promise you, as soon as I get an APPROPRIATE room for YOU, I will take you back IMMEDIATELY. It sounds strange, I know - but you will be seen QUICKER by waiting for an APPROPRIATE room, than if I put you in a room that doesn't have what YOU NEED."

They eat it up.

[ERNP]

We have telemedicine for that. Our hospital is rural and it is great to be able to have consults over tv.

steph

Would love that. We are rural and have no such beast so the phone came in handy once.

[gonzo1, ASN, RN]

Thanks to working in the ER I know that it can be a very scarey place out there. I would be very upset and scared if I thought a stranger was taking my picture, but I can't really explain why I feel like that. Quess I've seen one too many murder mysteries.

I like thinking that I am a pretty ananimous person, a small fry. I hope I never see anyone doing that around me.

[NativeSundance, LPN]

We had that problem for a while in our ED. Our security deptartment though is right on top of that and WILL make the person taking the pictures erase them and/or be escorted out of the ED. It is not tolerated. We cannot take pictures of our clients without their permission and they are not allowed to take ours. We have plenty of notices posted to that effect. The patients have rights, and the staf has rights.

[LeahJet, ASN, RN]

We had that problem for a while in our ED. Our security deptartment though is right on top of that and WILL make the person taking the pictures erase them and/or be escorted out of the ED. It is not tolerated. We cannot take pictures of our clients without their permission and they are not allowed to take ours. We have plenty of notices posted to that effect. The patients have rights, and the staf has rights.

I wish our ER/security was as supportive as yours. Even though I made out an incident report and voiced my concern......I doubt anything will be done.