Bullies

Specialties School

Published

School: Boy, 8, Who Killed Himself Never Said He Was Bullied | NBC Chicago

Just read this article and it breaks my heart in a million pieces. I know that bullies have always existed, but somehow it seems worse now a days. Curious what other nurses, especially school nurses, think.

Specializes in Psych, Addictions, SOL (Student of Life).

I haven't read through this whole thread so forgive me if I repeat something someone else has said. I am currently a charge RN on an child/adolescent inpatient psych unit and I can tell you that suicidality among our young people is pervasive. We get so many that I am no longer surprised when we get a new patient with this ideation. It spans all socioeconomic groups and races. The reasons are everything from being physically or sexually abused at home, bullying at home or school or getting a B on an AP History exam. Some kids feel suicidal and have no idea why they feel that way.

When it comes to bullying I can tell you that even if they have a 0 TOLERANCE policy towards bullying, school administrations do nothing about bullying. MY own son was bullied in 4th and 5th grade to the point that I went to the school principal only to be told that the "Bully" in question had emotional problems and we should all try to be more understanding and since this was a private Christian school "Say a prayer for him and his family. After numerous discussions with this principal I enrolled my son in martial arts and after consulting with the police department informed the school that my son had my permission to defend himself if this other boy put hands on him again. As it would happen This other boy's behavior escalated to the point where he attacked another boy with a pair of scissors when my son intervened this boy picked up a brick and went after my son who used his martial arts training to disarm his attacker and put him on the ground in an arm bar until a playground monitor arrived to ""Break-up" the fight. My son was suspended for fighting and the other boy was not because of his "Emotional problems". We changed schools shortly after that incident.

The other thing that surprises me and I noted this on the Psychiatric Nurses forum is how clueless most of these kids parents are. They push for discharge from a mental health facility immediately after the 72 hour hold (5585/California) is expired. It doesn't matter that the child just recently tried to kill themselves "They seem fine now." It boggles my mind. These parents have no clue what their kids are doing or feeling, who their friends are, what they are doing on the internet etc.... So yes I do believe parents carry some of the blame in these situations. Oftentimes it is s friend who alerts someone that a friend is in trouble. Parents tend to ignore all the warning signs and keep their blinders on tight. I don't know what role school nurses may have in educating families and kids on maintaining a healthy emotional balance but I suspect like most nurses they are overworked and underpaid and do the best they can under the circumstances.

When my son was in 6th grade at a new school he was showing some signs of depression. I took him to his doctor and we three talked. The doctor suggested that we take him off an allergy medicine he had been taking for years which had recently been connected to suicidality in adolescents. I don't believe my son was suicidal but why take the chance. I took him off the drug and his sleep and mood improved rapidly. Yes we had to deal with allergy symptoms but the pay-off was worth it.

I guess this ends my rant. Like I said I didn't read all the post so apologize if I repeated others thoughts or opinions.

Hppy

Specializes in Psych, Corrections, Med-Surg, Ambulatory.

I guess this ends my rant. Like I said I didn't read all the post so apologize if I repeated others thoughts or opinions.

Hppy

No, you raised some excellent points that hadn't been raised previously. Your perspective added a lot to this thread. Thank you.

I have no idea why schools do not act, especially when they are given specific information they could easily follow up on. Instead they make blanket "This will not be tolerated" memos, as if the students are reading the emails they circulate. Suspend them and do not let them make up assignments. Period. You failed seventh grade? Shouldn't have been a bully. It will deter students when they see the schools mean business. Students suspended for bullying should be allowed back in school only after attending meetings with their parents and the admin. Have school law enforcement there if needed. The specific behavior should be discussed and explained in no uncertain terms as to why it is unacceptable. Sorry, I hate stories like this, now I'm prickly. :(

Specializes in ED, psych.
I haven't read through this whole thread so forgive me if I repeat something someone else has said. I am currently a charge RN on an child/adolescent inpatient psych unit and I can tell you that suicidality among our young people is pervasive. We get so many that I am no longer surprised when we get a new patient with this ideation. It spans all socioeconomic groups and races. The reasons are everything from being physically or sexually abused at home, bullying at home or school or getting a B on an AP History exam. Some kids feel suicidal and have no idea why they feel that way.

When it comes to bullying I can tell you that even if they have a 0 TOLERANCE policy towards bullying, school administrations do nothing about bullying. MY own son was bullied in 4th and 5th grade to the point that I went to the school principal only to be told that the "Bully" in question had emotional problems and we should all try to be more understanding and since this was a private Christian school "Say a prayer for him and his family. After numerous discussions with this principal I enrolled my son in martial arts and after consulting with the police department informed the school that my son had my permission to defend himself if this other boy put hands on him again. As it would happen This other boy's behavior escalated to the point where he attacked another boy with a pair of scissors when my son intervened this boy picked up a brick and went after my son who used his martial arts training to disarm his attacker and put him on the ground in an arm bar until a playground monitor arrived to ""Break-up" the fight. My son was suspended for fighting and the other boy was not because of his "Emotional problems". We changed schools shortly after that incident.

The other thing that surprises me and I noted this on the Psychiatric Nurses forum is how clueless most of these kids parents are. They push for discharge from a mental health facility immediately after the 72 hour hold (5585/California) is expired. It doesn't matter that the child just recently tried to kill themselves "They seem fine now." It boggles my mind. These parents have no clue what their kids are doing or feeling, who their friends are, what they are doing on the internet etc.... So yes I do believe parents carry some of the blame in these situations. Oftentimes it is s friend who alerts someone that a friend is in trouble. Parents tend to ignore all the warning signs and keep their blinders on tight. I don't know what role school nurses may have in educating families and kids on maintaining a healthy emotional balance but I suspect like most nurses they are overworked and underpaid and do the best they can under the circumstances.

When my son was in 6th grade at a new school he was showing some signs of depression. I took him to his doctor and we three talked. The doctor suggested that we take him off an allergy medicine he had been taking for years which had recently been connected to suicidality in adolescents. I don't believe my son was suicidal but why take the chance. I took him off the drug and his sleep and mood improved rapidly. Yes we had to deal with allergy symptoms but the pay-off was worth it.

I guess this ends my rant. Like I said I didn't read all the post so apologize if I repeated others thoughts or opinions.

Hppy

Great post.

When I was a teacher, I saw quite a bit of bullying. I also was involved in two students with SI.

One set of parents was very concerned with the whole *labeling* aspect of suicide. The whole stigma of mental illness applied in this case, and this mom and dad wanted this child out of the psychiatric hold ASAP. It was horrible; I won't go into the circumstances of this particular case, but these parents clearly had no clue and clearly didn't give a damn either. I remember dad was pissed because it might have an effect on college.

The other set of parents? Super involved, knew their child was depressed and was involved with the school, brought their child to therapy ... and still the child was super secretive.

My own daughter suffers from depression. I keep track of her moods and watch her like a hawk, but I never want to say, "I'd know if she'd have SI" because maybe, just maybe .... not. She's 14. I know my own child. I'd like to think I would see it. So far I have seen the depression and acted before it overtook her.

But. My cousin committed suicide. My aunt was very loving and involved. She knew he was depressed. He was seeing a counselor. He was taking his meds. She made sure someone was home all the time.

It only took a few seconds.

In the article that was presented, it seems that the school held a LOT of info back. Mom wasn't aware of the half of it, and administration failed big time. Hell, mom had no idea the child was unconscious from a potential head injury. She trusted the school's assessment. Head injuries can be serious; who knows if this played a role?

I think we, as parents, put a great deal of trust into the hands of those who teach, who nurse, who supervise those who educate. We should. So many times, however ... well, stories like this come to light.

No 8-year-old should ever be in this position.

I think you hit the nail on the head though. The bully is often protected. It's disgusting. I saw this happen in my teaching career, and I'm wondering if this is what is changing the tides from when we were young (aside from social media).

Specializes in Psych, Addictions, SOL (Student of Life).

Maybe you all can help me. One of the Psychology Interns at my facility said she read somewhere that there was a study on teen impulsivity that was worth reading but then she couldn't remember where she read it. It basically said something like adults with suicidal ideation take about 3 days to process the decision from thought to action while Teens go from thought to action in under 1 minute which is why we see so many teen suicide attempts. I have googled and searched several academic data bases with no luck - If anyone can find this study I would love to read it.

Hppy

Specializes in Psych, Addictions, SOL (Student of Life).

Found a mention of it

Impulsivity and teen suicide | Psychology Today

Hppy

Specializes in Emergency Dept. Trauma. Pediatrics.

If we look at how much stigma STILL exists with adults and mental illness, I am unsure why people are still always so surprised when it comes to children. With children they can't see the end game, they can't see that middle school and high school and now even elementary school means nothing when they become adults (although again social media and the internet is very much changing that) I mean don't get me wrong, I love the internet, I love how easy it's made life. At the same time I wish we could just take it back. In the end I feel it's doing more harm than good.

Anyway, schools are in a tough position as well and I am not sure what the solutions are. There was another media thing that went around last week and people ripped the school apart. Had the school not acted though and something happened, then everyone would have ripped the school apart for not doing enough. They can't win.

Since we are sharing, I will share a small blurb on this. Not even getting into my own past and my issues with all this, last year I received a phone call at work from my sons principle that they had a very strong reason to believe my son killed himself. In fact they were about to head out to my house to check. I lived 2 mins away so I got there first. Now as a mom and someone well well versed in the realm of mental illness and suicidiality, I did suspect something was going on. I talked to my son all the time. Not only was her very introverted, he was highly intelligent and he was very small for his age. He was the minority at his school and he literally could have been the poster sign for kids you see in shows that got bullied. (outside of clothes and appearance) but as far as personality and size. I asked him all the time if he was getting bullied, if anything was going on, the things I was supposed to do. He always insisted that things kids say don't bother him and he wasn't being bullied and he was good. At this point he grades were still A's and this day was the first day of school he had ever missed. I let it go because I didn't know what else to do.

I can't even begin to tell you what went through my mind as a mom. The anniversary for my brothers suicide was a few weeks away during this time. During the course of investigating everything I discovered on his "erased" google history that he had planned and researched his suicide for the past month. He had all his bases covered. It was also found out his "best friend" was going to help him end his life. At the end of it all the school felt it would be best if he finished the school year in an alternative school which was really 3 hrs a day at the boys and girls club with deviant kids, (where he is even MORE out of place) and he would do online modules. This just pushed him more over the edge. As far as the kid that was going to help him. The school did not seem to see the seriousness of that. That this kid needs to be talked to and get some help too. Because it truly was his best friend, the kid tried to talk my son out of it. When my son was stubborn in his decision and his friend realized he wasn't changing his mind. That is when he said he would help. But the school didn't seem to see the problem with this and why this needed to be handled as well.

The only good thing to come out of the situation was that we found out it was the kid across the street that was doing most of the bullying. Kids mom was loud and abrasive and crazy, but she wasn't about bullying. Found out the kid was physically bullying my son at the bus stop and on the bus primarily. Well when the mom found out her son was involved she lost her mind and she wanted my son to come see her whoop her sons butt. I thought it should be handled differently, and her and I talked. We got the boys together and when her son found out my son was literally hours away from killing himself and that it was because he couldn't handle the thought of dealing with the bullying any longer, her son broke down bawling. He truly had no idea and he never once thought those actions could push someone to the point of death. He was genuinely sorry and remorseful. I was thankful for that. A lot of times bullies don't care.

Specializes in UR/PA, Hematology/Oncology, Med Surg, Psych.
If we look at how much stigma STILL exists with adults and mental illness, I am unsure why people are still always so surprised when it comes to children. With children they can't see the end game, they can't see that middle school and high school and now even elementary school means nothing when they become adults (although again social media and the internet is very much changing that) I mean don't get me wrong, I love the internet, I love how easy it's made life. At the same time I wish we could just take it back. In the end I feel it's doing more harm than good.

Anyway, schools are in a tough position as well and I am not sure what the solutions are. There was another media thing that went around last week and people ripped the school apart. Had the school not acted though and something happened, then everyone would have ripped the school apart for not doing enough. They can't win.

Since we are sharing, I will share a small blurb on this. Not even getting into my own past and my issues with all this, last year I received a phone call at work from my sons principle that they had a very strong reason to believe my son killed himself. In fact they were about to head out to my house to check. I lived 2 mins away so I got there first. Now as a mom and someone well well versed in the realm of mental illness and suicidiality, I did suspect something was going on. I talked to my son all the time. Not only was her very introverted, he was highly intelligent and he was very small for his age. He was the minority at his school and he literally could have been the poster sign for kids you see in shows that got bullied. (outside of clothes and appearance) but as far as personality and size. I asked him all the time if he was getting bullied, if anything was going on, the things I was supposed to do. He always insisted that things kids say don't bother him and he wasn't being bullied and he was good. At this point he grades were still A's and this day was the first day of school he had ever missed. I let it go because I didn't know what else to do.

I can't even begin to tell you what went through my mind as a mom. The anniversary for my brothers suicide was a few weeks away during this time. During the course of investigating everything I discovered on his "erased" google history that he had planned and researched his suicide for the past month. He had all his bases covered. It was also found out his "best friend" was going to help him end his life. At the end of it all the school felt it would be best if he finished the school year in an alternative school which was really 3 hrs a day at the boys and girls club with deviant kids, (where he is even MORE out of place) and he would do online modules. This just pushed him more over the edge. As far as the kid that was going to help him. The school did not seem to see the seriousness of that. That this kid needs to be talked to and get some help too. Because it truly was his best friend, the kid tried to talk my son out of it. When my son was stubborn in his decision and his friend realized he wasn't changing his mind. That is when he said he would help. But the school didn't seem to see the problem with this and why this needed to be handled as well.

The only good thing to come out of the situation was that we found out it was the kid across the street that was doing most of the bullying. Kids mom was loud and abrasive and crazy, but she wasn't about bullying. Found out the kid was physically bullying my son at the bus stop and on the bus primarily. Well when the mom found out her son was involved she lost her mind and she wanted my son to come see her whoop her sons butt. I thought it should be handled differently, and her and I talked. We got the boys together and when her son found out my son was literally hours away from killing himself and that it was because he couldn't handle the thought of dealing with the bullying any longer, her son broke down bawling. He truly had no idea and he never once thought those actions could push someone to the point of death. He was genuinely sorry and remorseful. I was thankful for that. A lot of times bullies don't care.

My son made a serious suicide attempt about three years ago. It was God that led us to find and save him in time. He was in therapy at the time, but afterwards I made the whole family get personal counseling. Even with my counseling, I know I still have PTSD from it. He has made great strides and is healthy and happy, but I still find myself having flashbacks and am trying hard not to be too hovering.

Specializes in Emergency Dept. Trauma. Pediatrics.
My son made a serious suicide attempt about three years ago. It was God that led us to find and save him in time. He was in therapy at the time but afterwards I made the whole family get personal counseling. Even with my counseling, I know I still have PTSD from it. He has made great strides and is healthy and happy, but I still find myself having flashbacks and am trying hard not to be too hovering.[/quote']

I am glad to hear that everything is doing better, for this incident it definitely sparked back up PTSD issues I already had, it got so bad I couldn't walk into my front door and right past his room without picturing him there hanging. Instead of him physically my image would be of a boy the same age that we coded in the ER. But in my sons research it appeared that was the method he had planned on using. My grandmother and brother both committed suicide, mental health issues run very deep in the family. These cases are becoming more and more frequent and it's just heart breaking. Again, I am very glad you guys are doing better! I have been through some extremely traumatic things in my life, but nothing compared to that day, that phone call and walking through the door trying to prepare to find my son dead. So I definitely can sympathize with what you went through.*I tried to find some mushy emoji to put here but I can't find one*

Specializes in Psych, Peds, Education, Infection Control.

The other thing that surprises me and I noted this on the Psychiatric Nurses forum is how clueless most of these kids parents are. They push for discharge from a mental health facility immediately after the 72 hour hold (5585/California) is expired. It doesn't matter that the child just recently tried to kill themselves "They seem fine now." It boggles my mind. These parents have no clue what their kids are doing or feeling, who their friends are, what they are doing on the internet etc.... So yes I do believe parents carry some of the blame in these situations. Oftentimes it is s friend who alerts someone that a friend is in trouble. Parents tend to ignore all the warning signs and keep their blinders on tight. I don't know what role school nurses may have in educating families and kids on maintaining a healthy emotional balance but I suspect like most nurses they are overworked and underpaid and do the best they can under the circumstances.

I guess this ends my rant. Like I said I didn't read all the post so apologize if I repeated others thoughts or opinions.

Hppy

You said SO much of what I was going to! And probably better than I could have, since shifting to nights has my brain fried a bit this week. SO MANY parents just do not understand how sick their kid IS or give mental illness the respect it deserves. I explain the brain is an organ, just like any other, and it can have illnesses of its own. Stigma is part of it, and sometimes cultural issues regarding mental health enter. But I have several families a week pushing for discharge, AMAs (even though that's not something we do when they're on a hold), insisting their kid is just doing this for attention, etc. If I had a dollar every time a parent threatened to call the police to have their child released to them, that we were just making a big deal out of nothing, I wouldn't have any more student loans. Sometimes they do and the police get to explain the same law to them that I just did.

Kids can and do kill themselves. Kids can and do WANT to kill themselves. They do hear voices. Some mental health issues don't traditionally manifest until later in life, but a lot DO and people assume kids are too young for that. But they're not. Sometimes it's organic. Sometimes it's trauma. Sometimes the two mix and create an even more complex problem.

A lot of people want to blame media for younger kids knowing how to kill themselves. But a determined kid will try anything. I've seen so many attempts, in various ways that...yeah, the kids shouldn't know. But they absorb everything in society, and sometimes something they heard one time somewhere in a different context volunteers itself in their moments of despair. A co-worker, used to adult psych, once asked me how a six year old would even THINK of hanging as a suicide option. The kid's response, when asked the same question in a therapy session? Judas hanged himself in the Bible...

I don't like to play "blame the parents" in cases of bullying victims, at all, especially in this case where the parents were clearly involved and the ball was dropped elsewhere. But I do like to remind parents, gently, that denial and stigma surrounding mental health - or even the unwillingness to accept that kids can suffer from adult-sized problems - CAN kill.

Specializes in Psych, Peds, Education, Infection Control.

Thanks for this! I'd been looking for that same article for work earlier but wasn't finding it. Impulsivity is SUCH a huge factor in teen suicide.

Specializes in Family Nurse Practitioner.

I saw the article on MSN and the picture of that beautiful, sweet baby will forever stick in my mind. Heartbreaking and that the assaults and bullying took place in his school in this day and age when we know what we do is disgusting. I'm sending prayers for him and his family.

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