BSN from 4 year program required

[tokmom]

A friend of mine was recently looking at utilization review positions and ran across this:

BSN from a 4 year program required.

So that means of course that an ADN who chose to advance their education to a BSN, will be excluded, even though they come with years of experience.

There will be no reason for ADN's to advance their education if they do not have any opportunity in other fields.

I'm sure this is money driven. Why else would an employer limit their applicants to 4-year program BSNs who may be new grads with little to no experience?

Thoughts?

[tokmom, BSN, RN]

That is exactly what part of the problem we experienced with DEMSN grads. Some of them thought that they should be in charge since they were masters grads after all. many expressed dismay when they found themselves working side by side and being paid the same as their ADN and BSN fellow new nurses.

However the real problem is the DEMSN APN programs. They spend a year or so being educated as RNs, then enter the APN portion of their program/ They are expected to work for a year or so after becoming RNs but before the APN portion. Many of these people took jobs in specialty units and accepted very expensive training knowing full well they intended to skip out on the unit right when they were about to actually become useful.

I know of two people in my nursing experience who did just that. They were hired and placed in new grad programs. Once they had a year under their belt, they left for APN programs. Not cool.

[NurseGirl525, ASN, RN]

I have not read the entire thread but I think you are reading too much into it OP. They just want to make sure someone has a BSN or what is considered a 4 year degree. It is taking me 3.5 to get my ADN but that is considered a 2 year degree. More than likely it just wasn't worded well. If they just stated RN well, that can be an ADN or BSN. So they were just being specific, that's all. I think too many feathers are getting ruffled here for no reason. People who work in HR generally do not know all of the ins and outs of how to obtain degrees. They think that because their bachelors only took 4 years, so does everyones. It's sad, because if you are in HR at a hospital you should know all of it but they don't.

[BacktotheBeach, ADN, BSN, RN]

tokmom, I'm understanding the wording differently, as in "BSN from a 4 year program required" would include ADN-BSN's who participate in the last several semesters of a 4 year program.

I agree, this is how I would understand that.

[elkpark]

... and my corporation doesn't either, nor does any hospital in my surrounding area.

Your employer, and other employers in the area, don't have to "ask" you about your educational preparation -- or are you saying that you were hired without completing a job application that included listing all your education?

[tokmom, BSN, RN]

Your employer, and other employers in the area, don't have to "ask" you about your educational preparation -- or are you saying that you were hired without completing a job application that included listing all your education?

Yes, I do understand they do not have to ask about my employment. I assist in the interview process in my department. My organization, hospital, department, managers are not fixated on the educational background of the person. We don't grill on GPA, or ask why they chose a particular program.

[jadelpn, LPN, EMT-B]

Unfortunately, many figureheads view nurses who went to community colleges for their initial training as lower class people than youths who attended traditional baccalaureate nursing programs.

It's the fear of the "high school dropout" mentality. Certain groups tend to have high numbers of individuals with this mentality, and they include nurses who were adult learners, community college students, former LPNs, former CNAs, and people who actually did drop out of high school in their teens. Meanwhile, BSN students tend to not have this high school dropout mentality. They went to school straight out of high school, usually, and made it into competitive nursing programs immediately.

They also like traditional BSN graduates more because they are more likely to be youthful, former frat girls/boys who with high aspirations -- such as anesthesia school or management.

Not saying I agree with any of this (I am an ADN to BSN completion nurse), but just expressing my perception of the reality.

This. Right. Here.

In other words, it confirms the "customer service" mentality--if someone is fresh, newer, current in a 4 year traditional BSN course of study--they can be molded into the image of the company which hires them.

If someone is a multi year less than BSN nurse, or a non-traditional student who has the ability to get some credits for "life experience" or "work experience" towards a BSN, that is not the "experience" some facilities seek. One comes in with too many pre-conceived notions.

And as much as I, like I am sure many on AN would relish the thought of packing bag and going off to live in a dorm for 4 years--that is just not feasible.

But the requirements across the board should say what they mean--that in order to get any position in acute care, bedside to UA--is a traditonal 4 year BSN, period.

This would certainly save a tremendous amount of time and energy on "making accommodations" for those pesky LPN, Diploma, ADN bridge people. Not to mention that I know of more than one nurse who spent lots of time and money on a BSN bridge, on non-tradtional completion programs--only to be told that there were "no positions" available when they completed. And even more than one who looked elsewhere for employment and was told "well, you have 'x' amount of years as an LPN, not a BSN (

Awesome. Total waste of time and energy and jobless. Only no one will tell you that before you sign the dotted line of a non-traditional route.

I continue to contend that at the end of the day they really could care less about the quality of a nurse's practice. Now, seemingly, another way to weed out the "troublemakers" who put practice above PR, as this is NOT 20 years ago--it is now.

The face of health care has changed to the degree of "quit your moaning, and could ya smile and be humble and serving?!?!?! Because lecturing about what a patient should not do will not get us paid! That is what those crusty old bat nurses do!! We need to MILDLY educate the patient!! It is all about documenting that you are using evidence based practice!!" (and as a side note--really?!?!?! is there any facility who DOESN'T use practice that is evidence based--we are not giving placebos and some sort of wacky "sing the sick away" practices....)---

"Oh, and don't forget meaningful use and the need to document your mild education, but make sure you hit the high points so that the patient feels GOOD about it!! And NO it doesn't matter that I have never actually taken care of a patient before!! I know evidence!! And I know reimbursement!! And gosh darn it my 20 years as a customer service rep for the insurance company--and I KNOW these things!! And that I got full tuition reimbursement from that company and stand before you an MSN!! (who cares that my undergraduate degree was liberal arts?! They didn't have those rules then!!)

The reality is really warped. And sad.

[BlueDevil, DNP]

I haven't ever seen or heard of a job posting like that mentioned in the OP. For the least 3-5 years, I have seen "BSN required, MSN preferred" with increasing frequency. I'd estimate 2/3 of the positions in this city say exactly that. I have no data on the credentials of the people they actually hire. All nursing openings at the University Hospital (the most desirable work place for RNs) do require a MSN for new hires now. They don't have any trouble finding them, and nurses fight tooth and nail for positions at the Uni: free health insurance for the employee, heavily discounted health care services if you use Uni providers and facilities, the usual cushy state benefits including a fully funded pension after 25 years service, free college/grad school tuition for the employee and their dependents (including domestic partners), free use of University pools, athletic/gym facilities, free exercise classes, 2 for 1 discounted tickets to the Opera, theatre, sports events- the list goes on. I understand salary is comparable to the private hospital in town, but you cannot beat the Uni's benefit package. If I were a BSN RN working across town, I'd finish a Masters and fight for one of those positions too! I have heard they have >300 applicants for every position.

[tokmom, BSN, RN]

Yeah, but do they want those young things that go straight from high school to an MSN? Or will they accept those bridge type nurses, who put themselves through school, raised a family and then found the time and money to go back to school themselves?

[jadelpn, LPN, EMT-B]

Yeah, but do they want those young things that go straight from high school to an MSN? Or will they accept those bridge type nurses, who put themselves through school, raised a family and then found the time and money to go back to school themselves?

Because at the end of the day, as attractive as all of those benefits are, you have a unit of nurses looking at each other wondering what in the world they are supposed to be doing. And I hate to say it, but with lots of benefits come a great deal of expectation.

Even a PhD can not prepare anyone to hit a floor running. That is the benefit of a nurse who works for any number of years, then goes on to complete degrees.

[lifelearningrn, BSN, RN]

I'm not sure the difference. They are all B.S. degrees in nursing, no? My university had a traditional B.S. in nursing track and an RN-BSN bridge program. Two separate programs but both required the same requirements for the state to earn a bachelor's degree.

[BlueDevil, DNP]

Yeah, but do they want those young things that go straight from high school to an MSN? Or will they accept those bridge type nurses, who put themselves through school, raised a family and then found the time and money to go back to school themselves?

I presume they would prefer MSN with experience over MSN without. The question is, do they prefer BSN with experience to MSN without? I can only go by what their ad says, which is "MSN preferred." As I said, I have no data about whom the U actually hires. I hear a lot of discussion about it at my state nsg assoc meetings. I don't personally know anyone (other than providers) actually working there, so I couldn't even begin to guess.