BSN patient outcomes

[S.G.]

I haven't done the research myself, so please forgive me if this is an ignorant thought.

I have read studies citing that BSN prepared nurses have better patient outcomes than ADN prepared nurses.

I find myself wondering if any studies compare ADNs to BSNs who were not diploma or ADN nurses first. I haven't found a study that doesn't include experienced nurses who have gone back for their BSN (I haven't tried very hard to look but I did search a bit while going back for my own BSN). It seems like it would make sense that more experience and more education would have better outcomes. Is there a difference in patient outcomes for new grad BSN versus RN-BSN students? I would think yes. It's not a fair comparison to say that BSN nurses have better outcomes than ADN nurses if RN-BSN nurses are included in the study. RN- BSN nurses should have better outcomes than ADN nurses if only because they do have more experience.

Just my random thought for today...

[SoldierNurse22, BSN, RN]

I get what you are saying, S.G. Your question is not the same debate going on in other threads and I find your post thought provoking as well.

Now as to people who say bringing up a topic is beating a dead horse... who cares? Don't read it. Move on. Especially new grads who haven't partaken in these debates before...let them have their chance to speak. And yes, sometimes posts are made when all that needed to be done was a quick search to read older posts that have already covered it. 2 things: 1. Get over it. Don't read it. Move on. And 2. Sometimes its just easier to make a quick post to answer your exact question than to wade through similar topics that never get to the bottom of what you want to know.

It's difficult to "move on" to something else when numerous threads on AN are all discussing the same thing. I swear, if I see one more thread about NCLEX freak-outs or tattoos...

That said, I understand the delineation of the OP's question here from the other threads on AN currently. As Esme said, it's a matter of making sure that one states their question/opinion clearly enough that it is well-understood by the readers.

[LisalaRN99, BSN, RN]

Ok, here's a thought....what about the new ADN grad who has a previous Bachelor's or Master's Degree in other subjects? Does that mean the new grad has more education and therefore, might have better patient outcomes? Afterall, it's my understanding the the better patient outcomes are the result of the BSN student developing better critical thinking skills from their experiences in non-technical nursing courses. It would be interesting to see the results of a pure ADN grad and a pure BSN grad without any previous life experiences to influence the study. I don't think we have many of them anymore.

[boogalina, ADN, ASN, BSN, MSN, LPN]

"It would be interesting to see the results of a pure ADN grad and a pure BSN grad without any previous life experiences to influence the study. I don't think we have many of them anymore."

And even there, the waters still would be muddied by the ADN grads who had life experience (possibly also in the medical field) before becoming RNs.

The best way to gather this data would be with a cohort study, following new grads with similar prior job experience, comparing ADN to BSN (traditional, not RN-BSN). I have no idea how patient outcomes could be tracked specific to the cohort members, though. Sounds almost impossible!

[KJM-RN, BSN]

Many students also seek employment during nursing school as an intern/extern, CNA, PCT... That's another factor to take into consideration.

This has probably been asked a million times, but if its not known whether BSN RN's truly do have better patient outcomes than why the push to only hire new grad BSN's? Just because they can...?? Better for the future of the profession...??

[ckh23, BSN, RN]

I get what you are saying, S.G. Your question is not the same debate going on in other threads and I find your post thought provoking as well.

Now as to people who say bringing up a topic is beating a dead horse... who cares? Don't read it. Move on. Especially new grads who haven't partaken in these debates before...let them have their chance to speak. And yes, sometimes posts are made when all that needed to be done was a quick search to read older posts that have already covered it. 2 things: 1. Get over it. Don't read it. Move on. And 2. Sometimes its just easier to make a quick post to answer your exact question than to wade through similar topics that never get to the bottom of what you want to know.

Yes let us promote laziness. The OP freely admits he/she did zero research on the topic, which includes searches of past threads. I guess we should just start answering all the homes,Orkney questions that are posted too because it's "easier".

[S.G.]

Yes let us promote laziness. The OP freely admits he/she did zero research on the topic, which includes searches of past threads. I guess we should just start answering all the homes,Orkney questions that are posted too because it's "easier".

I did not research this particular topic. I have done past research on BSN patient outcomes and did not find this aspect addressed. I find it a bit harsh to say I'm lazy for not repeating an in depth search. No, I didn't read every thread on ADN vs BSN in the forum. The sheer number if comments was overwhelming and I, again, I did not see this aspect ever brought I to question. So, yes, on a forum this size it's easier to start a new topic that people perceive as the same in order to explore a portion if the discussion not previously discussed. Call it lazy if you will. I don't often spend hours researching when a question is sparked by sheer curiosity.

Rather than starting a project for curiosity, I asked if others had come across information. It is not the same as asking someone to research for me. This isn't a work or school project. It was a random thought related to the other mentioning a of the ADN vs BSN threads I had seen. If you feel like I'm bearing a dead horse, feel free not to respond. The ADN vs BSN may be a dead horse. This isn't about that battle.

My curiosity is about the research itself. People use the research to claim better patient outcomes are a result of higher education (in this case a BSN). If the research is going to be used to make such a broad claim, I wonder if any research has actually been done to see if there is an actual relationship between the BSN and outcomes or experience.

In my opinion, higher education improved critical thinking. So does experience. It seems logical to me that BSN nurses would have better outcomes than ADN nurses given that so many BSNs were previously licensed and practicing. They have the combination of experience and higher education. I curious about what the results would be with RN-BSN students removed from the equation. I don't have the resources to even attempt such an undertaking as to do that sort of study. The research is lacking a flawed. I wondered if others had thoughts such as mine. I did not wonder if they would look for research for me.

I will try to be more clear about what I mean in future.

[S.G.]

Many students also seek employment during nursing school as an intern/extern, CNA, PCT... That's another factor to take into consideration.

This has probably been asked a million times, but if its not known whether BSN RN's truly do have better patient outcomes than why the push to only hire new grad BSN's? Just because they can...?? Better for the future of the profession...??

I think some of the push has to do with the ongoing battle of nursing to prove that it is a profession rather than "just a job". It has a very low entry level if education compared with other professions. It seems like the flawed research is used to push that agenda. Just my opinion though.

[S.G.]

"It would be interesting to see the results of a pure ADN grad and a pure BSN grad without any previous life experiences to influence the study. I don't think we have many of them anymore."

And even there, the waters still would be muddied by the ADN grads who had life experience (possibly also in the medical field) before becoming RNs.

The best way to gather this data would be with a cohort study, following new grads with similar prior job experience, comparing ADN to BSN (traditional, not RN-BSN). I have no idea how patient outcomes could be tracked specific to the cohort members, though. Sounds almost impossible!

This is exactly what I was thinking! I'm not sure that we can get an accurate study to prove that a BSN itself actually has a causative effect on patient outcomes. I don't see way to actually do the study. And that could explain why I hadn't come across anyone addressing this issue. All the studies lump every BSN together and every ADN then compare the groups but cannot account for previous experience or education. I have difficulty putting much faith in studies that leave so many obvious flaws.

[SleeepyRN]

Yes let us promote laziness. The OP freely admits he/she did zero research on the topic, which includes searches of past threads. I guess we should just start answering all the homes,Orkney questions that are posted too because it's "easier".

Its as simple as choosing not to answer.

[SleeepyRN]

Yes let us promote laziness. The OP freely admits he/she did zero research on the topic, which includes searches of past threads. I guess we should just start answering all the homes,Orkney questions that are posted too because it's "easier".

Furthermore, I refuse to censor my questions simply because it MIGHT annoy some random person on the internet. I personally try to research what I can before posting a question, but I sure am not going to be intimidated into being too embarrassed to ask a question or propose a thought.

[LadyFree28, BSN, LPN, RN]

I did a research proposal in my program, so I hope to answer the OP's question, and contribute my point of view in the discussion.

My research proposal was focused on how ADN-BSN nurses and BSN nurses improve their practice, using the Benner Novice to Expert Model.

When looking at previous research, each article I have reviewed, including the studies that are being used to "elevate" the profession-which it is, already...our profession cannot be perceived nor compared to other professional educational formats, IMO, because of the nature of the clinical work that we do, especially of what is expected in our practice.

NONE of the studies PROVED that the entry level should lean towards BSN...it SUGGESTED that with more education, PLUS experience showed a correlation towards better patient outcomes.

If anything, the research supports Benner's novice to expect theory. More educated and experienced nurses have better outcomes. It also suggests that having a better skill mix will help new nurses transition easier from novice to expert, based on my interpretation; which I used in my research proposal.

I also went to a program where they were piloting a 5 year study on traditional nursing students and non-traditional/second degree/healthcare experience nurses in terms of succeeding a BSN program...they are going to correlate data to their RN-BSN program as well. I was in year 2; so when their research is done, I anticipate to see what data they produce.

The REAL issue is ensuring that nurses can successfully transition from novice to expert, not necessarily in entry level to practice per se, but in ensuring how nurses can improve their practice successfully. It also comes down to HOW one interprets data objectively.

If that means the option to get a BSN, getting certified in the area of practice, or ensuring educational credits for a stronger practice, then those options seem pretty logical; as long as the OPTIONS (did not say "requirements") are logical, the benefits to the patient and the Nurses's practice can correlate to better outcomes for all.

[SE_BSN_RN, BSN]

It's difficult to "move on" to something else when numerous threads on AN are all discussing the same thing. I swear, if I see one more thread about NCLEX freak-outs or tattoos...

That said, I understand the delineation of the OP's question here from the other threads on AN currently. As Esme said, it's a matter of making sure that one states their question/opinion clearly enough that it is well-understood by the readers.

I would hope, though, that freaking out about the NCLEX on a nursing forum would garner some support and encouragement for the test takers....me being one of them. My NCLEX is scheduled for 8-19, and I would hope that if I was freaking out, that some experienced people could give advise rather than voice displeasure at a topic that people have much anxiety over. Perhaps a suggestion to the site mods is that they blend the threads together, or suggest a topic search before posting the same thing over and over?