BSN is a joke

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I am a nurse at a major hospital where I have worked over a year after gaining my ASN. I have returned to get my BSN. What I'm not understanding is why there is such an ENORMOUS disconnect between what I do at work and the class work I need to do. It doesn'y apply at all. I have to take family care classes and informatics with very little practical application. I have to memorize all the rules of APA. My patients don't care if I can wrote a wonderful APA formatted paper. They just don't. It's like there is no appreciation in BSN education for what nursing is really about. At no time will I EVER do a CFIM on my patient or a PEEK readiness assessment. Get real. Where is the disconnect? Everyone I talk to say's the same thing about their BSN program, that it is completely useless. Who decided that nurses needed extensive training in social work and paper formatting?!?! I don't deal with social work. I have a team of social workers for that. At no time will I ever be in a patients home trying to improve the communication between family members ect. There are family counselors ect for that. It isn't my job! Yet here I am getting trained in areas I have no interest in, and will never ever use in my career. And for what? So I can say I have 3 letters behind my name and the school and hospital can make more money? Its a joke. I'm learning nothing of value. I would drop out and find a new school, but everyone I talk to has the same opinion about where ever they went. Basically healthcare has become obsessed with accolades, but forgot that those accolades were supposed to represent a level of expertise.

Why is there such an enormous disconnect between real life nursing and nursing education??!?!?

Academic hooey huh? Yeah that sounds about right and no sour grapes here-I am a diploma nurse and also a BSN graduate of a highly regarded university. Core curriculum relating to pharmacokinetics, physiology, health care delivery processes...those are the additional tools in a nurse's armamentarium that will actually benefit patients. APA formatting, nursing theory, and community health-not so much. Yeah, yeah, yeah I know all the arguments in favor of BSN entry into practice, but if hospitals are truly concerned with improving patient outcomes, let's not be disingenuous. Also, regarding how the various means of becoming a nurse prevent the discipline from being recognized as a true 'profession'-what about Doctors of Osteopathy vs Medical Doctors? All just a lot of hype to generate $$ for the academic institutions like I was made to pay(employer mandate) so that I could go back to the same job that I've done for years and all for the same pay.

What do you mean DO vs MD? DO school is a doctorate program and takes 4 years, just like med school. Name one PROFESSION (not a trade or vocation) that does NOT require a college education.

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Higher education or book smarts don't make you a better nurse.

Based on what?

Based on what? How about empiricism? Nurses are keen observers and I can tell you that after twenty-five years in several practice areas in numerous states, I can confirm this assertion. I, and most nurses, don't alway require statistical support to arrive at a conclusion-it's seeing repeated patterns, intuition...-call if what you will. I can't even count the number of highly-credentialed nurses in direct care and educational roles that I've encountered who were able to freely recite research, policy and procedure, but often were the very nurses that did not possess any practical sense, were marginally effective, and that you did not want caring for your sick loved ones. No, this does not apply to all and is not meant to be a gross generalization-but this has been my (and I'm sure many's) experience. Nursing clinical competence and savvy are not alway the purview of higher education-sorry. Give me that shrewd, experienced, capable, albeit non Master's prepared nurse, to care for me in my time of medical need.

No one is requiring an MSN for bedside nursing, nor is that the topic of discussion here.

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Specializes in Adult Internal Medicine.
Klone, thank you! I don't dispute the fact that additional education equates to a better, well-rounded practitioner, but I take exception when it is suggested that education trumps years of experience in the clinical arena.

Education does not trump experience, it improves it. And vise-versa.

I haven't seen a single person suggest that coursework is more important than experience. I have seen many try to make the argument, including yourself, that education is either less important than or mutually exclusive to education.

Who do I want piloting my airplane in a nasty storm with unexpected turbulence and blinding rain? Then, the pilot's educational preparedness matters little-give me the that seasoned professional who has weathered many such storms in the cockpit and instinctively knows how to respond.

Here you seem to go back to the same argument about education vs experience.

Me, I want the experienced pilot that has completed an extra year and a half in aeronautics to supplement her/his experience.

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I don't follow your logic here. A novice RN is a novice RN. The NCLEX is a minimum competency board exam. Are you insinuating that ADN nurses are better prepared to function on day 1 over BSN nurses?

No. What I am asking is, if a certain degree is required to perform a role, is it okay to essentially not be prepared to perform that role after having obtained the degree. I don't really care whether we're talking about a BSN, ADN, or a trade-preparation approach. Whatever it is that is required should enable basic functioning in the role. We are talking about the bedside role, not whatever else people may choose to do with a BSN.

If you don't believe that even the ADN level of preparation is adequate in order to perform the bedside role then that can certainly be up for discussion, too.

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PGY1s do it every July.

Klone, with all due respect I don't understand what you're saying here. That someone in the 5th year of a formal, ongoing, post-baccalaureate educational process which is focused on the minute details of the human body and its functioning is on the same footing with regard to role preparation as a BSN RN, respectively?

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Specializes in CRNA, Finally retired.
Yes, but hospitals in this area will not hire any nurses unless they have a BSN. to be very honest, I find that a nurse who has gone through the ranks to be much more qualified, hands on and able to think than most of the BSN I have interviewed.

Apples to oranges. ANYONE who has "gone through the ranks", i.e. experienced, will be....more experienced. How does the BSN with 20 years experience rank?

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Specializes in CRNA, Finally retired.
ASN and BSN program curriculum have become essentially identical, so I'm curious how you believe that despite being taught under the same curriculum that BSN students will learn different things than ASN students.

My Spanish minor was very useful in Brooklyn.

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"Don't hang around any physician forums, but I have to wonder if they are in the habit of disparaging education the way I often see nurses doing.. *******************************************************************

MD's are the worse! What are you talking about! LOL!

My hubs is a Simulation Manager. Every physician specialty has to come to the Simulation Center to perform their scenario to prove competency. The MD's hate it, as they already know how to do it!

Well, hello there... You know, when you respond to someone and add a "lol" it might give the impression that you are mocking what the person you responded to said.. Frankly, it sounds a bit snooty & superior.

Also, if you want to make sure that your reply actually makes sense, it's helpful if you include the entire paragraph you were responding to, instead of just half of it. LMAO!

This is how it went...

Oh, and remember... the title of this thread is "BSN is a joke"..

OP wrote this...

Yet here I am getting trained in areas I have no interest in, and will never ever use in my career. And for what? So I can say I have 3 letters behind my name and the school and hospital can make more money? Its a joke.

My response to the above quote was...

I don't hang around any physician forums, but I have to wonder if they are in the habit of disparaging education the way I often see nurses doing.. While degrees aren't the be-all and end-all of our earthly existence, I guess I don't understand the negative attitude towards them.

See, what I was commenting on doesn't have much, if anything, to do with what your "hubs" teaches. I was obviously talking about academic degrees. ROFL!

Okay, I've had my fun ;) The rest of the post is a serious response.

These kind of BSN vs ASN threads pop up on a regular basis and I am always saddened by them. It's funny how I've never seen a thread started by someone with a BSN, MSN or DNP saying how bad diploma or ASN nurses are (simply because I don't think the vast majority of nurses with those degrees hold that view, I know that I don't), but I've seen many where BSN's are disparaged. I do think that it's counterproductive to voice contempt against professional degrees in your chosen profession. It's the exact opposite of promoting yourself and your profession. You are telling the world that the education you have or the education that your peers have is crap. How does that reflect on us all? Does anyone think that will strengthen the position and image of our own profession if we loudly and publicly badmouth the educational requirements?

I stand by my original post. I've often heard nurses complain about stupid APA formatted papers and research, but I've never heard a physician whine that they had get a higher academic degree in order to practice as physicians. Have you ever heard a surgeon witch and moan that s/he had to do all this APA garbage, when all s/he is doing all day long, is cutting people up? I mean, that's one heck of a task-oriented job. Who cares if they know the difference between a high quality randomized trial, case-control design or a retrospective comparative study? Just give'em a scalpel...

The more I read posts on this debate the more I think the crux of the issue really has nothing to do with degrees, coursework, application, or outcomes but rather with one group either feeling or being made to feel they are 1. left on the outside or 2. less of a nurse. It becomes so personal that way that implicit bias trumps any logical argument or data to the contrary.

I think you hit the nail right on the head.

These discussions almost always feel very emotionally charged, and not always rational/fact-based. Since I have never thought of any nurse as "less than" based purely on level of academic accomplishment, I am always a bit surprised when a poster feels the need to launch a seemingly unprovoked broad-brush attack on every single BSN-holder (or rather the quality/value of their education). I'm sure that some schools are academically more demanding and others are somewhat lower in quality, but that isn't in my opinion a good enough reason to designate a BSN degree, a "joke".

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If I'm not mistaken, the OP is commenting about their perceived lack of value in the BSN program. Throughout the country, many seasoned nurses' clinical experiences are being discounted and devalued in lieu of the baccalaureate degree-hence, the 'education vs experience' is certainly apropos and applicable in this discussion. Perhaps your pomposity or need to defend your position and be right is responsible for your myopic view.

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For all those who say public health or community health is useless - read the All Nurses article: Public Health Nursing - A Critical Speciality.

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Specializes in Adult Internal Medicine.
If I'm not mistaken, the OP is commenting about their perceived lack of value in the BSN program. Throughout the country, many seasoned nurses' clinical experiences are being discounted and devalued in lieu of the baccalaureate degree-hence, the 'education vs experience' is certainly apropos and applicable in this discussion. Perhaps your pomposity or need to defend your position and be right is responsible for your myopic view.

I'll ignore the ad hominem.

Explain how seasoned nurses' clinical and experience is being discounted/devalued in lieu of education? The only one that has tried to make an education vs experience debate is you. It's a red herring.

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No. What I am asking is, if a certain degree is required to perform a role, is it okay to essentially not be prepared to perform that role after having obtained the degree. I don't really care whether we're talking about a BSN, ADN, or a trade-preparation approach. Whatever it is that is required should enable basic functioning in the role. We are talking about the bedside role, not whatever else people may choose to do with a BSN.

If you don't believe that even the ADN level of preparation is adequate in order to perform the bedside role then that can certainly be up for discussion, too.

I think this post really expresses the crux of this whole discussion. Bravo to this poster. I would like to hear recognition of the problem and solutions from nurses who hold positions in nursing academia; these are the people who are charged with educating nursing students. I am not holding my breath that this discussion will be forthcoming though, as I have not yet seen anyone supply these answers on this forum (I am willing to be corrected if this topic has already been addressed substantially by nurse educators and I have been unaware of it).

My conclusion is that nursing academia is happy with the status quo. And there, folks, lies the answer.

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