BSN is a joke

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I am a nurse at a major hospital where I have worked over a year after gaining my ASN. I have returned to get my BSN. What I'm not understanding is why there is such an ENORMOUS disconnect between what I do at work and the class work I need to do. It doesn'y apply at all. I have to take family care classes and informatics with very little practical application. I have to memorize all the rules of APA. My patients don't care if I can wrote a wonderful APA formatted paper. They just don't. It's like there is no appreciation in BSN education for what nursing is really about. At no time will I EVER do a CFIM on my patient or a PEEK readiness assessment. Get real. Where is the disconnect? Everyone I talk to say's the same thing about their BSN program, that it is completely useless. Who decided that nurses needed extensive training in social work and paper formatting?!?! I don't deal with social work. I have a team of social workers for that. At no time will I ever be in a patients home trying to improve the communication between family members ect. There are family counselors ect for that. It isn't my job! Yet here I am getting trained in areas I have no interest in, and will never ever use in my career. And for what? So I can say I have 3 letters behind my name and the school and hospital can make more money? Its a joke. I'm learning nothing of value. I would drop out and find a new school, but everyone I talk to has the same opinion about where ever they went. Basically healthcare has become obsessed with accolades, but forgot that those accolades were supposed to represent a level of expertise.

Why is there such an enormous disconnect between real life nursing and nursing education??!?!?

Nursing being in taught in colleges, is a recent phenomenon. Why? Nursing was considered women's work. Women weren't admitted into colleges a 100 years ago, that is why these diploma programs developed in hospitals. Now more than ever we have access to amazing educational opportunities. Nursing should keep up with these developments and move forward. Every other profession isn't fighting it.

Define "recent" ... People have advocated for nursing education to move into colleges and universities since the beginning of the last century, and colleges and universities have offered nursing programs since early in the last century, over 100 years ago. The first baccalaureate degree in nursing was offered at Yale in the early 1920s, almost 100 years ago.

Hospital diploma programs weren't developed because women weren't allowed in colleges, they were developed because that was felt to be the most appropriate setting to teach and learn nursing, and nursing wasn't considered (by most) an occupation that required college-level education.

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"... you get what you put into it."

So true...

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5:38 pm by elkpark

Quote from Susie2310

Interesting that you find the continuing education requirement to be an empty gesture but you don't find the requirement that nurses should have to go back to obtain a BSN an empty gesture. Even if some nurses treat continuing education nursing requirements lightly, you can't generalize this to the entire population of US nurses and make a blanket statement that continuing education requirements don't help nurses improve their practice. That would be a ridiculous position. This entire thread includes numerous nurses personal experiences of how little the BSN is helping them improve their nursing practice. Is it possible that as an advanced practice nurse and I understand, former nursing instructor/faculty member yourself, that you have more of a stake in the BSN/higher nursing education?

Quote by elkpark

Where did I say that I support a requirement to make nurses return to school for a BSN? I don't. I acknowledge the reality that many employers are requiring this, and I am a big fan of education in general, but I don't believe I have said anywhere that I think requiring RNs who don't want, for their own reasons, to further their education to complete BSNs is a good idea.

Last edit by elkpark on 5:47 pm

From Susie2310 to elkpark:

You stated that continuing education requirements for license renewal are an empty gesture. Empty gesture means meaningless/ineffective. I said that you don't find the requirement that nurses should have to return to school for a BSN an empty gesture. I didn't say that you said you support a requirement to require nurses to return to school for a BSN. Please read my post again.

I don't really see what your beef is. Sorry I wasn't clear enough. I'll try again. I also consider requiring RNs who do not want to do so to return to school to complete a BSN an empty gesture. It doesn't have to be -- there is plenty to be gained, personally as well as the obvious professional benefits, from furthering one's education. I'm certainly not denigrating baccalaureate education in nursing generally. But if people don't want to do it and are determined from the beginning that the exercise is pointless and they're not going to get anything out of it, then, yeah, they're probably not. Forcing people to return to school against their will is not going to magically make them more competent, caring, skilled nurses than they were before, any more than required CE hours are. Again, "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink." You can force people to return to school against their will, but you can't force them to want to learn or be better nurses. And, if they do want to be better nurses, they're going to be taking steps and making efforts to grow professionally regardless of whether it is required of them or not.

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RNs do need an understanding of social work. The nursing model is holistic care that also considers the patient's community and environment. In addition, medicine is moving to a team-oriented collaborative care model. In many hospitals and LTCs, staff meet periodically to discuss patients and RNs, social workers, psychologists, etc. go through and discuss every patient. RNs are also responsible for patient education, and that requires the RN to have a good understanding and knowledge of what resources are required for each patient and where to obtain them and go for referrals.

The BSN is also required for managerial and advanced practice roles.

But hey, no one is forcing you to get your BSN.

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Specializes in Adult Internal Medicine.

The more I read posts on this debate the more I think the crux of the issue really has nothing to do with degrees, coursework, application, or outcomes but rather with one group either feeling or being made to feel they are 1. left on the outside or 2. less of a nurse. It becomes so personal that way that implicit bias trumps any logical argument or data to the contrary.

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Unless the OP's employer mandated a specific RN to BSN program, they should have put some effort into finding a good program. Since I live near San Diego, I'll use the San Diego State University (SDSU) RN to BSN, a typical public university, curriculum as an example:

For RN to BSN students, the nursing courses taken upon entering the SDSU School of Nursing include

(schedule of courses subject to change):

NUR 307: Nursing Research & Evidence-Based Practice (3 units – offered Fall 2016 and Spring 2017 Semesters). Note: prereq is Math Quantitative Reasoning.

NUR 312: Nursing Professionalism (3 units – offered Fall 2016 Semester) Concepts in professional nursing practice including stress theory, therapeutic communications, values clarification, and legal issues.

NUR 320: Health Assessment and Health Promotion for RN to BS (4 units – offered Fall 2016 Semester). Expands RN's ability to measure and interpret physical physiologic and psychosocial functioning. Clinical presentation of disease and disability. Evidence-based guidlines for health promotion and disease management. Lab and lecture.

NUR 415/415L: Community Health (5 units – offered Fall 2016 and Spring 2017 Semesters) Assessment and utilization of community health concepts and delivery with emphasis on promotion of health, prevention of illness and group teaching techniques. Clinical experience in caring for clients in the community. Public Health Nursing is a very respected RN function and is the foundation for NP practice. Lab (clinical hours) and lecture.

NUR 458/458L: Leadership (5 units – offered Fall 2016 and Spring 2017 Semesters) The US healthcare system and healthcare economics. Theories and functions of nursing management in the healthcare system. Lecture and lab.

NUR 400/400L: Nursing Care of the Complex, High Acuity or Critically Ill Patients (6 units – offered Fall 2016 Semester) Lab and lecture

-OR-

NUR 437: Transitional Care of Populations (6 units – offered Summer 2016 and Summer 2017) Lab and lecture. Both courses focus on care management of patients of all ages who have complex health concerns that require coordination of care across disciplines and transitions between care settings.

I don't see how any of these courses can be deemed "fluff."

In addition, the student must complete some GE requirements to earn the BSN. A BSN is a Bachelor's degree. A bachelor's degree is not a skills-based degree. It is meant to provide a well-rounded education.

Evidently, some programs require Healthcare Informatics. This is extremely important. A lot of RN job postings specify the candidate must have experience with EMRs and some even specify the name of the EMR. And a BSN-prepared RN should know more than just how to use an EMR. Health Info Tech (HIT) also encompasses how to use the data in such systems for data analytics purposes - QI, budget, legal requirements, etc.

The OP, and many other posters, lack an understanding of the definition of a profession versus a trade From Merriam Webster: an occupation (as medicine, law, or teaching) that is not mechanical or agricultural and that requires special education. Professions also generally command higher pay and status. If RNs want more pay and to be treated better, then they also need to put in the time for a professional education, beyond skills training.

Finally, I have never seen a profession disregard a college education! Military officers, with few exceptions, must have a college degree. MDs are required to obtain a 4 year college degree before med school. Allied health professions, such as physical therapist, etc are required to have at least a master's degree! If we want the nursing profession to have more respect, then we need to have the educational credentials!

The benefits of higher, more abstract education are generally NOT immediately apparent. Nursing is NOT just skills - it goes way beyond that. Nursing is a science and discipline. Florence Nightingale did not just write about skills and provide an instructions manual - she had to advocate for the improved practices and care she developed, and go in front of Parliament to get budget for the care of soldiers in the Crimean peninsula. Her writings are also focused the the reasoning behind the practices she pioneered.

The American dream has been for young people to get the best education possible. My mother was an immigrant and she sacrificed a great deal to make sure I got a college education. I've never heard a good parent say they don't want their kids to get a college degree!

OP, part of being a professional is sometimes doing things you don't like or find boring. In fact, that's true of any decent job. It's on you that you did not make the effort to find a good RN to BSN program. And if it bothers you that much to have to get a BSN, then go find a job that doesn't require it. You should be grateful for this opportunity, as I bet your employer is paying for part or all of it.

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As far as APA format is concerned, I simply hired someone from the Social Work department of the large university where I worked to type out my paper in APA format. The rate was reasonable, the work good and done on time.

If time is more important than money, hire someone in the Social Work department of a college or university near you to do the APA work. I thought it was money well spent.

Sorry, but I can't advise you on the rest!

Lil, my mentor told me to buy the formatting software PERLLA for $40. It was a godsend! I never had to worry about APA formatting. My reference pages were precise and impressive! My papers were formatted to perfection by using this software! It also saved every reference that I used so I could pull from my data base to use in any of my future papers. It was an excellent teaching program as well.

I was told never to mention this program in any discussions as the professors looked down on it. Haha! You could tell everyone used it!

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Specializes in Vascular Access.

Yea, this OP is nuts. I'm getting my MSN right now.... it'll make me more marketable. l don't care what you say... I have 30 years to go.... May as well get the credentials now.

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"Very few people call themselves "professionals" with just an associates degree".

Who would those people be? In my 35 years of experience, I have mentored doctors, nurses and now insurance professionals.

The additional requirement to obtain a BSN is a bunch of academic hooey.. that does not apply to real world nursing.

Academic hooey huh? Yeah that sounds about right and no sour grapes here-I am a diploma nurse and also a BSN graduate of a highly regarded university. Core curriculum relating to pharmacokinetics, physiology, health care delivery processes...those are the additional tools in a nurse's armamentarium that will actually benefit patients. APA formatting, nursing theory, and community health-not so much. Yeah, yeah, yeah I know all the arguments in favor of BSN entry into practice, but if hospitals are truly concerned with improving patient outcomes, let's not be disingenuous. Also, regarding how the various means of becoming a nurse prevent the discipline from being recognized as a true 'profession'-what about Doctors of Osteopathy vs Medical Doctors? All just a lot of hype to generate $$ for the academic institutions like I was made to pay(employer mandate) so that I could go back to the same job that I've done for years and all for the same pay.

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Sour lemon,

Poor English grammar runs rampant and it makes me cringe. When I first started an online BSN program, I was astonished how prevalent basic grammar mistakes were being made by Professional RN's.

The OP's title, "BSN is a joke" and subsequent post is a perfect example of this.

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Specializes in ICU; Telephone Triage Nurse.

An APA format paper is part of a university based curriculum and education. It has nothing to do with nursing per se.

Writing an APA formatted paper didn't help me to be a better nurse, but it made me a better university student, and it took my knowledge of writing a paper to the next level.

I chose BSN at the time because that was my preference, but it certainly didn't make me a better nurse. My real nursing education began with my first nursing job (and has never ended yet - nearly 24 years later). That I would have got whether I graduated from a ADN, or BSN program.

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Specializes in ICU; Telephone Triage Nurse.
Lil, my mentor told me to buy the formatting software PERLLA for $40. It was a godsend! I never had to worry about APA formatting. My reference pages were precise and impressive! My papers were formatted to perfection by using this software! It also saved every reference that I used so I could pull from my data base to use in any of my future papers. It was an excellent teaching program as well.

I was told never to mention this program in any discussions as the professors looked down on it. Haha! You could tell everyone used it!

We hard to do it the old fashioned way in the years before cellphones and home computers (but I still paid someone to format and type the paper - in those days it was called "desk top publishing"! Worth every penny). :smug:

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