BSN is a joke

[nurseguy22]

I am a nurse at a major hospital where I have worked over a year after gaining my ASN. I have returned to get my BSN. What I'm not understanding is why there is such an ENORMOUS disconnect between what I do at work and the class work I need to do. It doesn'y apply at all. I have to take family care classes and informatics with very little practical application. I have to memorize all the rules of APA. My patients don't care if I can wrote a wonderful APA formatted paper. They just don't. It's like there is no appreciation in BSN education for what nursing is really about. At no time will I EVER do a CFIM on my patient or a PEEK readiness assessment. Get real. Where is the disconnect? Everyone I talk to say's the same thing about their BSN program, that it is completely useless. Who decided that nurses needed extensive training in social work and paper formatting?!?! I don't deal with social work. I have a team of social workers for that. At no time will I ever be in a patients home trying to improve the communication between family members ect. There are family counselors ect for that. It isn't my job! Yet here I am getting trained in areas I have no interest in, and will never ever use in my career. And for what? So I can say I have 3 letters behind my name and the school and hospital can make more money? Its a joke. I'm learning nothing of value. I would drop out and find a new school, but everyone I talk to has the same opinion about where ever they went. Basically healthcare has become obsessed with accolades, but forgot that those accolades were supposed to represent a level of expertise.

Why is there such an enormous disconnect between real life nursing and nursing education??!?!?

[lonewolfiern]

"Don't hang around any physician forums, but I have to wonder if they are in the habit of disparaging education the way I often see nurses doing.. ******************************************************************

MD's are the worse! What are you talking about! LOL!

My hubs is a Simulation Manager. Every physician specialty has to come to the Simulation Center to perform their scenario to prove competency. The MD's hate it, as they already know how to do it!

[JKL33]

The OP, and many other posters, lack an understanding of the definition of a profession versus a trade From Merriam Webster: an occupation (as medicine, law, or teaching) that is not mechanical or agricultural and that requires special education. Professions also generally command higher pay and status. If RNs want more pay and to be treated better, then they also need to put in the time for a professional education, beyond skills training.

Conceding these points, I would ask, then, whether the work of a bedside RN is a professional role or that of a trade?

[JKL33]

The more I read posts on this debate the more I think the crux of the issue really has nothing to do with degrees, coursework, application, or outcomes but rather with one group either feeling or being made to feel they are 1. left on the outside or 2. less of a nurse. It becomes so personal that way that implicit bias trumps any logical argument or data to the contrary.

Hmm, I do think there have been some decent concerns raised and, in fairness, there have been plenty of overly-reductive reactions to the OP's premise.

Consider a scenario where BSN has become the standard across the country, there are no more diploma programs, and to sit for NCLEX on must have a BSN, period.

Do we all agree that it's appropriate for a recently-graduated and newly-boarded, professional RN to arrive on the job site (let's say an acute care environment for the moment) prepared to barely function at "novice" level?

Perhaps when we have answered that question as nurses, we should also answer it as patients.

[BostonFNP, APRN]

Do we all agree that it's appropriate for a recently-graduated and newly-boarded, professional RN to arrive on the job site (let's say an acute care environment for the moment) prepared to barely function at "novice" level?

I don't follow your logic here. A novice RN is a novice RN. The NCLEX is a minimum competency board exam. Are you insinuating that ADN nurses are better prepared to function on day 1 over BSN nurses?

[BogieRN]

My thoughts are this. I started at the bottom. Went from CNA to MA to LON and now RN. When I was in LPN school I need clinicals at all the major hospitals in my county, which is a lot. I was never told LPNs were being weaned out of the hospitals. After graduating It was impossible to find a job in a hospital, I didn't like SNFs so I didn't pediatric home health. Aftwr 10 years I went back for my RN, again I was not aware ASNs were being weaned out of the hospitals and Bsns were the new thing. I applied to every pediatric hospital position I could find only to be told I didn't have enough experience. So my 10 plus years working with Trachs, vents, gtubes and the like was not good enough. So I'm back in home health making a dollar more than I did as an LPN. So now I'm back to my only option of going back to school. I glad some of you feel you have learned a lot going through the higher education programs. I myself learned more In practical nursing school than I did in RN school. As a new Rn I worked in a fast paced LTAC and could rum circles around nurses who had been RN for years or had their Bsns. Higher education or book smarts don't make you a better nurse. I saw book smart nurses make mistakes that had drastic effects.

Since most jobs want us to be Bsns then the state's should get rid of schools that offer LPNs and ASNs. Or make it mandatory that you have taken BSN classes to sit for the NCLEX. Cause guess what you BSNs sat for the same test us ASNs sat for! And we should be demanding more money to become BSNs. I'm sorry but a dollar more an hour is no where worth the thousands of dollars to go back to school for another year plus. There is already a shortage of nurses. Baby boomers are retiring and the demand for Bsns is gonna make for worse shortages. When I was hired at the LTAC I was told 4-5 patients. When I left we were up to 8. Nurse burn out is real. And its only gonna get worse

[BostonFNP, APRN]

Higher education or book smarts don't make you a better nurse.

Based on what?

I saw book smart nurses make mistakes that had drastic effects.

And have you ever made any mistakes or was that just with the BSN nurses?

Cause guess what you BSNs sat for the same test us ASNs sat for! And we should be demanding more money to become BSNs.

Demand more money, that's great. But right now most people are being told they need to go back to school to keep the job they have, so I am not sure how that demand will go over. Perhaps if its done through the union...

[guest974915]

Higher education or book smarts don't make you a better nurse.

Based on what?

Based on what? How about empiricism? Nurses are keen observers and I can tell you that after twenty-five years in several practice areas in numerous states, I can confirm this assertion. I, and most nurses, don't alway require statistical support to arrive at a conclusion-it's seeing repeated patterns, intuition...-call if what you will. I can't even count the number of highly-credentialed nurses in direct care and educational roles that I've encountered who were able to freely recite research, policy and procedure, but often were the very nurses that did not possess any practical sense, were marginally effective, and that you did not want caring for your sick loved ones. No, this does not apply to all and is not meant to be a gross generalization-but this has been my (and I'm sure many's) experience. Nursing clinical competence and savvy are not alway the purview of higher education-sorry. Give me that shrewd, experienced, capable, albeit non Master's prepared nurse, to care for me in my time of medical need.

[BogieRN]

Being book smart doesn't make you more compassionate, it doesn't teach you to care not only for the patient but also the family. Not all situations are by the book situations, books can't teach you basic common sense.

I never said the nurse that made the mistake was a BSN. Everyone makes mistakes we are human, I've never made a drastic mistake that had a the effect this person's mistake did.

I requested more money at a union job as I was way under paid for my experience and was told no because it was union and I had already accepted the position.

[BostonFNP, APRN]

Nurses are keen observers and I can tell you that after twenty-five years in several practice areas in numerous states, I can confirm this assertion. I, and most nurses, don't alway require statistical support to arrive at a conclusion-it's seeing repeated patterns, intuition...-call if what you will.

You are using empiricism here to define/justify an opinion, really you are defining dogmatism. Personal experience absolutely shapes our practice but is should do so under the confines of evidence-based practice, otherwise we end up with David Wolfe treating cancer with spring water.

Nursing clinical competence and savvy are not alway the purview of higher education-sorry. Give me that shrewd, experienced, capable, albeit non Master's prepared nurse, to care for me in my time of medical need.

Experience and education are not mutually exclusive; there is data to support the positive correlation of both, independently, with improved outcomes.

Would you take the "shrewd, experienced, capable" nurse with and ADN or the same "shrewd, experienced, capable" nurse that has also finished a MSN?

[klone, MSN, RN]

Do we all agree that it's appropriate for a recently-graduated and newly-boarded, professional RN to arrive on the job site (let's say an acute care environment for the moment) prepared to barely function at "novice" level? .

PGY1s do it every July.

[klone, MSN, RN]

Would you take the "shrewd, experienced, capable" nurse with and ADN or the same "shrewd, experienced, capable" nurse that has also finished a MSN?

This, exactly. People are comparing the "20-year veteran bedside ADN nurse who probably trained Jesus in the healing arts" to the "brand new wet-behind-the-ears BSN nurse who is also socially awkward".

They should be comparing themselves to themselves. Anyone who doesn't believe that more education would make THEMSELVES a better, more well-rounded nurse, is either lying to themselves or ignorant.

If you have more nursing education and theory, you will become a better nurse. It's as simple as that. Further, as with most anything else in life - you will get out of your education what you choose to put into it.

[guest974915]

Klone, thank you! I don't dispute the fact that additional education equates to a better, well-rounded practitioner, but I take exception when it is suggested that education trumps years of experience in the clinical arena. Who do I want piloting my airplane in a nasty storm with unexpected turbulence and blinding rain? Then, the pilot's educational preparedness matters little-give me the that seasoned professional who has weathered many such storms in the cockpit and instinctively knows how to respond.