I broke my HCA residency contract after working there for a little over a year. Two months later I received a letter from the Benefit Recovery Group saying I owed them money. I reached out to different lawyers and basically got answers from all of them. One said there's nothing I can do but I could try to negotiate. Another said that because I never received the 10,000 that HCA values their training at the money I owe them is " a training fee acts as a penalty and under Texas law, it's not enforceable". So I emailed them a response with what the second lawyer said and never heard back. Today I got the same letter again stating I owed money, so I sent them the same email. 

Does anyone have an experience with not paying them back? When I quit I knew I'd have to pay and I was okay with that, but I'd rather not if I don't have to. Will they eventually just drop it or will they send my debt to collections?

Lifted this from a comment just posted on another thread. This is regarding the conditions at (some of) these uber-special "residencies" wherein the training costs the employer so much that the new grads must be responsible for the cost of it:

Quote

Unsafe practices/staffing/nurse to pt ratios, bullying, with numerous preceptors only 4-6 months on their own training me

That is a place that pulled off selling someone completely dysfunctional/non-functional product.

But it is never going to be as obvious as it would be if someone tried to sell a car with no wheels or a house with no roof.

No nurse should defend the ethics of these contracts. They may not be illegal but they are certainly unethical.

Yes, people may have to pay if they got themselves into one.

The rest of the time we can continue warning people and continue supporting those who were blatantly lied to and purposely misled--and are a nursing demographic (new grads) chosen, ahead of time, specifically because they are less likely to know how things actually roll.

I continue to be disappointed in any defense of this. This practice is a concerted effort to abuse our profession.

 

Specializes in OB-Gyn/Primary Care/Ambulatory Leadership.

Hear hear. I completely agree. Normally I'm a "Caveat emptor, you signed a contract" but HCA's practices are shady, unethical, and completely take advantage of new grads' lack of savvy. Plus, they're literally the richest healthcare network in the country (possibly the world?) - the fact that they're trying to bleed turnips just shows how gross they are.

Specializes in New Critical care NP, Critical care, Med-surg, LTC.
4 hours ago, JKL33 said:

Unsafe practices/staffing/nurse to pt ratios, bullying, with numerous preceptors only 4-6 months on their own training me

I'm not defending any contracts, but unfortunately, this is the state of things in many hospitals, HCA or not. We've got TWO night nurses in my critical care unit that have been here more than a year. Some came from other places with experience, but they're new to our hospital. I was on vacation recently and they put a traveler in charge of the critical care unit, and she's already precepted two other travelers. We have NO experience throughout the hospital and they just hired what will amount to about 10% of our workforce in the new grad residency program. Most of them are being precepted by someone with less than a year on the floor. I don't think that we have nurse bullying in our organization, but some might argue that we do. And we've certainly have elevated staffing ratios throughout the units in our hospital as well. I don't think that these conditions are unique, unfortunately, but hopefully we can retain some of these new grads and see a change in our overall work environment. 

3 minutes ago, JBMmom said:

I'm not defending any contracts, but unfortunately, this is the state of things in many hospitals, HCA or not.

Hi JBM - I trust you will understand my comments are conversational and not meant snidely. Maybe not even a disagreement. ?

Yes, I understand the state of things. It doesn't matter if it's HCA, another hospital system, a war zone, a disaster zone, a dumpster fire....it doesn't matter because given that it is as you describe, there is zero ethical justification for this pay-to-play. There is especially no justification for misleading new grads in this way. There is no justification for these outlandish dollar figures for training, because the training isn't happening. This is less than the orientation we used to receive which was not a fancy, expensive "residency."

Misleading interviewees who have no employed nursing experience is never going to help ^ that situation improve. This is nothing more than lying and then punishing people who don't like being lied to. These are fraudulently induced contracts.

I did take note that you are not defending the contracts and I am glad to hear that. ??

I hope that your unit and facility are able to get back on track, I really do. I hope that they are being responsible to give reasonable expectations and support to new grads.

Specializes in CRNA, Finally retired.

Maybe this should be footnote in nursing education:  Don't sign a contract unless you have enough money to pay it back.  Who would apply to a job like that?  Surely, there is a format besides AN to get the word out to nursing students to beware.  The only way out of this is to provide working conditions that don't generate a high amount of turnover.

Specializes in New Critical care NP, Critical care, Med-surg, LTC.
1 hour ago, JKL33 said:

there is zero ethical justification for this pay-to-play

Absolutely. My only reason for chiming in on this is that I've seen people complaining about their working conditions as if they would be different elsewhere. I think it's very unfortunate that anyone gets roped these situations and I didn't mean anything about contracts, just that they're not likely to find much greener grass in many hospitals these days. 

8 hours ago, subee said:

Maybe this should be footnote in nursing education:  Don't sign a contract unless you have enough money to pay it back.

I think it should be more than a footnote for the nuanced situation that it is. Too much of what nursing students are told revolves around future employers' wants, needs, preferences and interests along with questionable ethical dicta from within the profession. Our code of ethics only manages a brief section about our own well-being and even then it treats it as an interest only relevant so that we can continue to serve and serve and serve. Not just patients but whomever needs or wants something from us.

I wonder if schools in HCA's ginormous coverage area even have the guts to encourage student debate or evaluation of this contract issue. I hope so, but somehow I'm guessing it's less risky to have students write papers about NETY and lateral violence.

Specializes in Critical Thinking-Critical Care.

Hey guys I am looking into HCA. I understand that there are some negatives to working in a HCA facility as a new grad. Unfortunately I live in a small town and 1 of the two hospitals in my area is HCA so I should at least consider their offer. What I want to know is when does the 2 year commitment begin? Does it begin as soon as you start the residency or after you finish the residency? Would my commitment be 2 years on top of whatever time it takes for me to finish the residency? 

Specializes in ER.

Hello. I've been reading this thread. I left an HCA facility in 2019 after the horrible conditions and bullying as a new grad in the STARN program. I was also falsely accused of stealing ? This was shortly after I went to HR to report bullying, and unsafe conditions. I constantly went to my union rep about how unsafe it was after realizing why mistake I made and then I had a target on my back. I even switched to nights to get away from management. I almost quit nursing altogether. 
 
I started receiving letters shortly after saying I owed them $3000.00. I've ignored it until now and they have not pursued it. Now they offered me 25% off saying I owe $2250.00. I know of at least 5 other nurses who quit before their contact was up as well and some were pursued and some were not. IDK if I should be worried now or not if they'll sue or send it to collections. Don't really want my credit ruined or have to pay a ton of money for legal fees if they decide to go after me. It's crazy how they only go after who they want. 

I was told by an inside source it is hospital based whether they pursue you for the repayment. Makes sense since the people they went after weren't necessarily liked. 

HCA is single-handedly the MOST EVIL, CORRUPT health system I have EVER seen. ?

On 11/6/2021 at 1:21 PM, hppygr8ful said:

I have not seen a HCA contract but I am pretty sure the terms are clearly spelled out. 

I bet you they are not. That is, they probably are in the way you mean (work here 2 years or pay)--but not in other ways that are just as important to the decision-making. The problem is that new grads talk with a "talent acquisition specialist" and whoever else meets with prospective employees and are told a bunch of stuff that has everything to do with what the prospective employee thinks they are getting themselves into, but which has no legal consequence whatsoever (you will have a specially-trained preceptor, you will have X number shifts of orientation on the unit, you will work X shift, etc., etc). I also bet that the company has everything arranged just perfectly so that between Health Trust (STARN provider) and HCA facilities and BRG none are responsible for what the others say or do. It may make financial/legal/business sense to have a separate arm for providing this extra-special training, but in reality there is no reason that HCA can't run an orientation program. There is a reason they do things the way they do.

Were things this convoluted 30 years ago? I wasn't there, but I doubt it was common practice to have separate arms of a healthcare corporation to train, employ and then chase down all the people the company planned to abuse.

I do agree that people should have the contract looked over by a lawyer, and that it is best to be prepared to stay or prepared to pay. I just don't happen to think young adults just trying to enter the profession are fundamentally negligent for not having foreknowledge of how shady things can be.

Specializes in Psych, Addictions, SOL (Student of Life).
JKL33 said:

I do agree that people should have the contract looked over by a lawyer, and that it is best to be prepared to stay or prepared to pay. I just don't happen to think young adults just trying to enter the profession are fundamentally negligent for not having foreknowledge of how shady things can be.

But they are smart or they wouldn't have finished nursing school and passed NCLEX. All one has to do is read HCA's web site and look at reviews by current and former employees to know what HCA is all about. It has a very big BUYER BEWARE sign hung on it.  If if one enters starry eyed they should remember that when something seems to good to be true it most likely is.

I don't know the average age of people who abandon their contracts but I would bet they were raised in the last 20 years or so and  had an expectation that an employer would be fair and kind and have their (new hire) best interest at heart. It's a big wake up call to enter a world and find out that face value is not the real story. I'm not saying it's right, it isn't. and definately should be changed but in the mean time it is what it is.  I don't see any legal way for these folks to avoid paying. If enough of them got together and brought a class action against HCA that might work but the contract probably has this line in it somewhere "If any portion of this contract is found to be illegal the remainder of the contract remains legally binding."

I have been there done that with contracts not related to nursing.

Hppy

32 minutes ago, Hoosier_RN said:

I agree with this mostly, but a simple search of this site and many groups on FB, reddit, and a few others show what a crap heap the HCA organization is. Whether new grad or seasoned nurse, you should always investigate any prospective employer to find out as much as you can. I was told this in nursing school a gazillion years ago, and I know I see it advised when people ask for interview help. Yes, people get sucked in by crappy organizations, I have, and know it happens to many. At the end of the day, it was my own fault for not investigating the employer prior to employment 

Well and then there's always that nurse that comes around to remind inquirers that everything is fine and dandy and the only people who post their negative experiences online are angry, miserable people. I mean this crops up just about every time someone asks what nursing is really like/if nurses hate nursing/ etc., etc. It's practically a phenomenon. If someone asks is X really that bad some people are going to say yes and some are going to say no, and someone is going to add on that people are just overexaggerating/complainers/angry/miserable.

My sense is that it isn't quite as easy to really find out about a place these days. For example all of this shadowing advice I read on here--I haven't seen that allowed in the time I've been a nurse, in either the academic/very large/metro acute care setting or the community acute care setting.

I think some of the best advice is that if something isn't on paper it can't be counted on. And how does someone really make a great decision when they can't truly see the day-to-day inner workings, have no experience in the role and can't believe anything that isn't on paper? Their best bet is to try to work as a tech and hope the unit they work on will hire them as an RN...and then still not count on anything that isn't on paper.

There are some wonderful older teens and young adults in my smaller community and extended family and I can imagine exactly how this happens: You have a bright-eyed, positive attitude and therefore downgrade the importance of anyone's warnings or negative stories. You have schools of nursing and other forces on the educational path leading students to imagine that their career is going to suck if they can't get a coveted "residency" spot. They then meet a nice sweet-talker employer representative who says things like, "well, technically we could but that never happens..." and other things like, "it costs five-hundred bajillion to train a single new nurse in our highly superior and selective program and so if you leave we will ask for a small portion of that to be paid back" and then all the over-hyped information about their wonderful super-star RN training program...put it all together and, I don't know. It's just easy to imagine how things happen. Not everyone has a wise parent or life advisor who gives good advice.

Plus then the bigger problem is what do new nurses do when this is more and more the risk of getting an acute care job? There are more stories than ever about people straight up being lied to (off the record, of course). That was NOT what I was up against when I got my new grad job at a huge acute care employer, had my regular old non-fancy (but stellar) "orientation" period, went to specialty-related classes, had a dedicated expert-level preceptor on days and then another one on nights, and was treated very well as a new nurse. Part of the problem here isn't that they shouldn't have signed the contract, it's that there's a huge discrepancy between what they are told (or what they can reasonably be expected to imagine) and what happens when they get out on the floors. That latter part is what sinks things and is conveniently the part that isn't on paper.

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