Breastfeed or else

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Specializes in Day Surgery/Infusion/ED.
Because the research has born that out.

As for other environmental "hazards" in breastmilk, the way they are finding their way into the mom is via air and water typically, things that the child is going to be exposed to if FF. If the mom is on crack, that's one thing. If you're worried about other environmental concerns, the research has shown that FF have the same amounts, if not more of these contaminents (in the case in which some people overboil water to make formula, thereby concentrating the pollutants.)

Again, it's an attempt to bring down nursing so formula feeding doesn't seem so bad.

I'm all for making everywhere BF friendly and increasing awareness. But part of that is any time nursing is brought up, non-nursers get defensive and say nursers are trying to make them feel bad. And, the formula companies have a lot more money to throw into making formula the norm.

As for the child free people, I do have to say, it takes a village to raise a child. You don't want to have children, that's your choice and I respect you for recognizing your desires, but no one in society is benefitted from poorly educated, poorly socialized, poorly treated children. Those children grow up and become your doctors, nurses and aids when you're in a nursing home. It is in your own best interest to make sure that kids grow up as best as possible, whether you like them, care about them or are related to them.

Geez, now you're hating on people who choose not to have kids! Not everyone wants children; that's not pathological. It's a personal choice. It doesn't mean people who choose to not have children are child haters or would treat children poorly.

"The child-free people..." :uhoh3:

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Specializes in ICU, ER, Hemodialysis.
I know that you do live in the real world MLOS. That is why I hate the guilt. I try to give information and support. The decision is yours. Breast milk is fabulous nutrition. When it is feasible. It is the best option. YOU (the MOM) need to make the decison re. what is feasible. It is not my call as the nurse or anyone else's but moms. This is why I feel that we need to see why women don't breastfeed and why thay start but stop after only a little while. We need more research on this subject. I suspect, and this is only my opinion, that some moms would still choose to bottlefeed, even if we eliminated all obstacles to breastfeeding. We are here to give information, never to coerce or intimidate. Maybe this is not my hotbutton issue. I suppose as an OB nurse I am not pro-breastfeeding enough for some. I do try to be very pro-patient (for both mom and baby). I have more trouble w/ the emerging issue of elective C/S, than I do w/ bottlefeeding. This still comes down to patient choice. I don't understand why patients choose many of the things they do, but bottom line is always that it is their choice and I am there to give the patient the best possible care, not pass judgement.

what a wonderful post from a wonderful nurse!!

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Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.

Guilt is omni-present in parenting, any of us who are parents KNOW this.......

Personally, I think it unconscionable (sp?) for us, as health care workers, to foist any unnecessary guilt on our vulnerable patients during their brief stay with us. Education is not the same as guilting someone into doing something they resist.

Knowing where to draw the line is such a fine art. Have we lost that "art" in the "science" of nursing so much that we can't see that????? This nurse is not guilting anyone into anything like breastfeeding.

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I just love when people get so committed to an ideal situation that anything less than ideal, regardless of how little less, suddenly morphs into "bad". I imagine that living in an area not impacted by things like air quality are "best" for a kid. However, I'm not going to insinuate that a mom (or dad) is any less "good" or "caring" or whatever superlative you choose, just because they "can" move to a "perfect" place but decide to stay where they are currently living. Saying that a mom who decides to bottle feed their kid is somehow inferior is about a nonsensical as suggesting a mom's bad because they don't move to some pristine country location.

Of all the trials and tribulations that a parent is going to face over the next 18+ years of raising thier child, any impact that deciding to go bottle rather than breast is just trivial. Instead of spending the energy used in laying a guilt-trip on a mom over feeding decisions, how about using that same energy on getting auto makers and car seat manufacturers together to design a seat belt system that makes it virtually impossible to improperly secure the baby seat that mom's going to plonk her kid into sometime in the next 24 to 48 hours. That, or about 1,000,000 other such "little" things.

Flame away.

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Specializes in NICU/Neonatal transport.

Why do I give my kids inferior food sometimes? because it's easier and I know that I am not feeding them that single thing for every single meal for over six months during some of the most important developmental times.

Which is why I keep saying, if you are going to FF, own it. Don't try and spin spin spin everything to make it seem like things aren't how they are. If there were reasons that were more important to you, than there were.

I don't believe I have ever said "it's my way or the highway". I have never said formula is poison. I have never said anyone was a bad mother. People keep putting words in my mouth, which quite frankly, is really starting to grate on my nerves. I post studies. I post links to interesting and thought provoking articles. And no one responds. They just all jump back about how I'm terrible and through insinuation, a terrible nurse (or in my case, nurse to be) because the moment someone says "I'm FF", I don't say "Sure, great, here's a free week's worth of formula to get you started."

That seems to be the only acceptable highway.

As nurses, if we recommend to someone they increase their exercise level or quit smoking and they say no, do we just check the little box and then offer them a big mac and a pack of ciggs? I would certainly hope not. We should be gently probing to find what sort of obstacles there are to improving their health and why they don't want to and how it is we can help them.

And finally, this is not about the mothers only. Both the mother and the infant are your patients and it is in the baby's best interest in most (but not all) cases, to receive breastmilk. They should be advocated for as well.

Just so people don't think in the future that I'm "giving up" because I can't answer the arguments and debates set forth, I am going to say that the next time I have to repeat myself because someone has defensively flown off the handle and failed to read a single word I've posted, I'll be stepping out of this thread.

If someone wants to actually address anything I've brought up, I love to have thoughtful discourse, but repeating over and over and over and over and over and over again that I do not think FF moms are bad moms isn't debate or discourse or intelligent.

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I just love when people get so committed to an ideal situation that anything less than ideal, regardless of how little less, suddenly morphs into "bad". I imagine that living in an area not impacted by things like air quality are "best" for a kid. However, I'm not going to insinuate that a mom (or dad) is any less "good" or "caring" or whatever superlative you choose, just because they "can" move to a "perfect" place but decide to stay where they are currently living. Saying that a mom who decides to bottle feed their kid is somehow inferior is about a nonsensical as suggesting a mom's bad because they don't move to some pristine country location.

Of all the trials and tribulations that a parent is going to face over the next 18+ years of raising thier child, any impact that deciding to go bottle rather than breast is just trivial. Instead of spending the energy used in laying a guilt-trip on a mom over feeding decisions, how about using that same energy on getting auto makers and car seat manufacturers together to design a seat belt system that makes it virtually impossible to improperly secure the baby seat that mom's going to plonk her kid into sometime in the next 24 to 48 hours. That, or about 1,000,000 other such "little" things.

Flame away.

There are only several hundred different car seats out there. I sure don't understand why no one can work them. DUH! You are so right about the seats. It is a worry. Of course not as much of a worry as when that darling little baby turns 18 and drives 100 miles to the beach. It was much easier at 18 inches of height, than it is at 18 years of age. That is for sure! My oldest graduated and is at the beach and I agree that raising them is multi-factoral and would add that there is ALWAYS something for a mother to worry about at any stage of life.
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Specializes in ICU, ER, Hemodialysis.
Why do I give my kids inferior food sometimes? because it's easier and I know that I am not feeding them that single thing for every single meal for over six months during some of the most important developmental times.

Which is why I keep saying, if you are going to FF, own it. Don't try and spin spin spin everything to make it seem like things aren't how they are. If there were reasons that were more important to you, than there were.

I don't believe I have ever said "it's my way or the highway". I have never said formula is poison. I have never said anyone was a bad mother. People keep putting words in my mouth, which quite frankly, is really starting to grate on my nerves. I post studies. I post links to interesting and thought provoking articles. And no one responds. They just all jump back about how I'm terrible and through insinuation, a terrible nurse (or in my case, nurse to be) because the moment someone says "I'm FF", I don't say "Sure, great, here's a free week's worth of formula to get you started."

That seems to be the only acceptable highway.

As nurses, if we recommend to someone they increase their exercise level or quit smoking and they say no, do we just check the little box and then offer them a big mac and a pack of ciggs? I would certainly hope not. We should be gently probing to find what sort of obstacles there are to improving their health and why they don't want to and how it is we can help them.

And finally, this is not about the mothers only. Both the mother and the infant are your patients and it is in the baby's best interest in most (but not all) cases, to receive breastmilk. They should be advocated for as well.

Just so people don't think in the future that I'm "giving up" because I can't answer the arguments and debates set forth, I am going to say that the next time I have to repeat myself because someone has defensively flown off the handle and failed to read a single word I've posted, I'll be stepping out of this thread.

If someone wants to actually address anything I've brought up, I love to have thoughtful discourse, but repeating over and over and over and over and over and over again that I do not think FF moms are bad moms isn't debate or discourse or intelligent.

i was not trying to put words in your mouth...my whole post was not directed at you. please don't take offense.

the part about your kids and inferior food was just to say that you make choices as a parent and so do other people. i'm sure most people know the supposed benefits of breast milk, but again, formula is not harmful, it just MAY be less benefitial than the breast. NOT an attack on you. please don't take it THAT way.

i enjoy the back and forth...and find that i can be presuaded...WITH a good argument of course.

wishing everyone happy posting,

jay

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Specializes in NICU/Neonatal transport.

Jay: Did you read the article I posted twice now on this thread called "Watch your Language?" With your excessive use of caps and large fonts, it is very easy for you to come off as offensive to me. My part about my kids and inferior foods was making the exact same point, and so you throwing it back at me was clearly showing that either you didn't bother to read the words I had written, or you didn't care because you had already worked yourself up into a self-righteous fury.

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I don't think anyone here has said that formula is just as good as breastmilk. I think we've just been defending it because we don't believe it's as crappy as that article makes it out to be.

And you did not prove to me that formula is 4th rate. Options 1, 2, and 3 are ALL breastmilk. Different forms, yes, but how can you use that argument and say that forumla is 4th rate. It is SECOND rate next to breastmilk. I still think it's incredibly offensive to some when you insist that it's 4th rate. We're not feeding them chocolate milk or Kool-Aid! We're feeding them the approved alternative to breastmilk.

Yeah what she said. I plan on breastfeeding my child but I also have to return to work, this will mean pumping and giving EBM. According to those standards I'm will not be giving my child the best...because EBM is second rate. I'm sure it wasn't meant that way, but you might want to be careful in choosing your words.

And no I didn't take offense to it...I swear I'm not that sensitive.

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Specializes in ICU, ER, Hemodialysis.
Jay: Did you read the article I posted twice now on this thread called "Watch your Language?" With your excessive use of caps and large fonts, it is very easy for you to come off as offensive to me. My part about my kids and inferior foods was making the exact same point, and so you throwing it back at me was clearly showing that either you didn't bother to read the words I had written, or you didn't care because you had already worked yourself up into a self-righteous fury.

actually i was apologizing to you if i came off that way. and i used caps to emphasize the words not to offend you. plus i said that i can be presuaded to change my mind that's not too self-righteous.

again, it was meant as an apology. about your kids, i was explaining what i meant by that and that i wasn't questioning you as a parent.

i hope you understand now,

jay

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Specializes in ICU, ER, Hemodialysis.

again my apologies to anyone that takes offense to my "caps." i have done this on all my post anywhere on this board to place emphasis on the words as i say them not to mean "yelling" or the like. again i apologize to everyone who took offense. i thought i was being very nice, trying to add to and not distract from this board as i truly love posting here!

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Peanut, as I said before , I am sure you are a wonderful person. I just don't agree w/ you. Please don't take it personally. You certainly sparked a great debate and got a lot of people thinking. I know this is a topic I will keep in mind when I take a research class in the future. This is a very emotional topic for many people including those who do not share all of your same views. People did read your posts and although they may not have always interpreted them as you meant, you made your offerred a lot of clarification. I think you made many good points. Good luck to you as you pursue your studies. You are very committed.

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