'Borderline' students?

[delirium]

Ok, this is a vent.

In school, we have to participate in a survey about predicted college success vs home support systems, class load, work hours, etc. This is to receive a grant, and those funds will be allocated to help 'borderline' students succeed.

Borderline students? As in the students who can't pull off a 75 on an exam if their lives depended on it? These are the students we want to try to help graduate and be out on the workforce? I think its wrong to relax the standards and help those less intellectually focused to pass the program knowing that they will never pass boards and, if they do sneak through, they'll be horribly unsafe nurses.

Its bad enough that the minimum score on the ACT is a 20. One of my friends in school is in the program, right beside me, and scored an 18. WTF? What is the point of having standards if everyone doesn't have to adhere to them?

But no, now they are seeking money to hire special tutors and create college success courses for the students who can't seem to pass.

What do you think? There are admission standards, ongoing standards, for a reason... to 'weed out' the people who can't make it. Why cater to them, make it easy for them to pass, knowing they'll never be successful? To collect more tuition dollars? Improve their numbers of graduating students? It certainly won't improve the nclex pass rate.

People say I'm too hard on others. Ok, whatever. I do not want to work beside a borderline student who can't figure out a simple dosage calculation or doesn't know the difference between DI and DM.

Grrrr!

[tookewlandy]

How can one be a good nurse if you cant sympathize with someone. i thought in nursing you had to posses qualities such as sympathy. If you cannot sympathize with fellow students who are not doing very well, then why would anyone think that you would sympathize with your patients.

[Lisa CCU RN, RN]

I must comment on this one. I am a 4.0 student who also works 45-50 hours per week. I don't think I am better than anyone but it's also hard for me to sympathize when I have already proved to myself that I can do ANYTHING that I set my mind on. This isn't just for me - anyone can do anything they set their mind on. I wasn't lucky or born with a silver spoon in my mouth - I just don't mind hard work. In fact, I am the first in my family to even attend college. But I have already proved to myself that if you want something bad enough, then you will do WHATEVER (within reason, nothing bad here) you need to do to get it. Maybe these people don't want to be a nurse as bad as they say they do. But when you are TRULY passionate about something, then failure isn't an option - you FIND a way to succeed. I don't agree with lowering the standards. Nursing is serious business - it's about people's LIVES - this isn't for just anyone! Higher standards should = better, more competent nurses.

Whoo! Are you in nursing school yet? It's way different than pre reqs. It's not particularly hard, just a lot of info.

To address the original issue I totally agree that just because one has a 4.0 that does not make them automatically a good nurse. But, there is something to be said for studying and taking responsibilty for your own learning.

I'm only in the first semester, and I haven't found any of the subjects we learned too hard if one simply applies themself.

[DaFreak71]

I'll be honest about my school. The standards are shockingly low. It takes an 18 on the ACT and some prerequisites to get in. If you live in the county, you get extra points, you get extra points on your application if you've completed all the science courses, you get extra points if you've applied in the past.

The problem with my school, IMHO, is that the academic standards are so incredibly low throughout the entire school that it is seriously EASY to get and maintain a 4.0 GPA. We have a lower than 50% graduation rate (from first semester through fifth) because "smart" students who have been breezing through their other classes finally get a reality check when they get into the nursing program. So basically we've got a bunch of academically successful students (successful by our school's standards) who fail out of nursing school, not because they didn't study but because they really did not have the aptitude for it to begin with. Add to that the stress of some really evil instructors, poor communication about what is expected and a bucketful of contradictory statements from one instructor to the next and in all honesty...I'm surprised that almost 50% do graduate.

To make matters worse, it's not as though my program has great instructors. I've heard wonderful things about the instructors in the upper classes, but I can tell you firsthand that most of the nursing one instructors at my school are the pits. It's a true joy when we get the good one teaching for the day, otherwise our collective eyes just glaze over for the next 3.5 hours. We've had occasions to be taught by some of the upper level instructors and WOW, what a difference.

I think that students who are struggling should definitely be pulled aside and LISTENED to. If I were king of the world, I'd want to know exactly what I could do to make the program more "user friendly". I don't think lowering standards would be the solution, but perhaps raising them would be. At my school, the best thing they could probably do would be to only accept students who did their prerequisites at another school, LOL. I think a nursing pre-course would be a good idea. Get people accustomed to the unique NCLEX style questions, get them accustomed to critical thinking and get all those little skills like taking vitals and stuff out of the way before you decide who can go on to nursing school. Our school doesn't require a CNA certification beforehand whereas other area schools do. Basically what I'm trying to say is that I don't think a lot of my classmates have been adequately prepared for the level of difficulty in the nursing program because the rest of the school is absurdly easy. I'm just glad that I'm such a nerd and my idea of fun is to read textbooks, otherwise I might be amongst those that get weeded out along the way. I can get a 40 (out of 100 questions) on the final and still make a B, but we have so many that will be kissing the ground if they even make it.

We only have to have a 75 to pass (in both clinical and theory). The ones that do make it through tend to do well on the NCLEX, we have a nice pass rate on that at least.

[a_clay]

How can one be a good nurse if you cant sympathize with someone. i thought in nursing you had to posses qualities such as sympathy. If you cannot sympathize with fellow students who are not doing very well, then why would anyone think that you would sympathize with your patients.

I think you might be getting "empathy" and "sympathy" confused.

[ortess1971]

My program is currently run on a "first-come, first-serve" waiting list basis. They are attempting to change this now because so many students are not prepared to do college level work. They are going back to an entrance exam for admission and you have to had passed Physiology with a B. Standards should be across the board in my opinion. And for the record, I work full time and get A's and B's.

[seekthenew]

Life is so horribly unfair at times! Yes, I struggled in school, but I DID MAKE IT, I think the main problem now days is people want everything to come easily. The lessons you remember best are those you learn the hard way.

I don't mind helping someone who is just a few points below , but come on, not everyone is cut out to be a nurse. I agree that standards are there for a reason...to ensure that our future patients are cared for by competent nurses. I can totally relate to what delirium is saying.

[a_clay]

I totally agree with you!

Life is so horribly unfair at times! Yes, I struggled in school, but I DID MAKE IT, I think the main problem now days is people want everything to come easily. The lessons you remember best are those you learn the hard way.

I don't mind helping someone who is just a few points below , but come on, not everyone is cut out to be a nurse. I agree that standards are there for a reason...to ensure that our future patients are cared for by competent nurses. I can totally relate to what delirium is saying.

[tookewlandy]

I think you might be getting "empathy" and "sympathy" confused.

No i don't think so. Sympathy can be when you feel sorrow for someone who is in distress over something. I would think that a nurse is sympathetic to their patients. I would be sympathetic if someone was failing, I definitely would not be thinking "HE/she should not be here". And i don't think that anyone should think that someone can't be a good nurse because of their low grade point average. If that were true wouldn't hospitals and other health care facilities that employ Nurses want them to bring their grade transcripts with them when applying or interviewing for the job

[chadash]

I have a question about nursing in general. Is it a field that any one who has the motivation can succeed at, or is a basic aptitude in certain areas essential?

[subee, MSN, CRNA]

My program is currently run on a "first-come, first-serve" waiting list basis. They are attempting to change this now because so many students are not prepared to do college level work. They are going back to an entrance exam for admission and you have to had passed Physiology with a B. Standards should be across the board in my opinion. And for the record, I work full time and get A's and B's.

"First-come, first-serve" admission is depressing to read about. First, with the shortage instructors avaible, those who are working have to put up with students who haven't been "sifted" yet to separate the wheat from the chaff. I had hoped that one good thing that would come out of this instructor shortage would be better students. There are plenty of other vocations for people who are academically challenged. Wouldn't it be better to get them enrolled in a program suited for them then to keep trying to hammer the square peg in the round hole?

[Lisa CCU RN, RN]

I cannot believe the snotty attitudes I've seen on this thread. :madface:

[Otessa, BSN, RN]

Hmmmm, I know some kick-*^% nurses that struggled

somewhat in the academic setting. I also know some nurses that excelled in academics but don't know their right foot from their left hand. My thoughts are that I would not want to work with judgemental people.

I believe I would have been categorized as a 'borderline' student way back when.(graduated with a BSN in 1992) I knew my stuff and kicked $#@ in clinicals and if there would have been orals with scenarios instead of written tests I would have been a straight "A" student as was evidenced by the essays I wrote on most of my tests.

I did pass the 2-day written NCLEX-it was very scenario-driven. There were 3 of our straight "A" students who didn't pass the NCLEX the first time.

Grades are NOT a 100% indicator of an excellent nurse.