I'm in a particular situation and was wondering if anyone had faced anything similar.
I have recently graduated and become licensed and was following up with professors who had agreed to write me letters of recommendation for jobs and getting nowhere. No response to multiple emails and phone calls from five different people in the department. So I decided to stop by there when I came on campus to pick up my diploma to see if I could catch someone in person.
I ran into one of the professors who had not responded to me and she told me to go to her office and that we needed to talk. She told me that the department had found our facebook group, that students had been saying disparaging things about professors and making death threats and "how would it look if I wrote you a glowing recommendation when the head sees all of them?" She said my behavior was unprofessional and implied this was why no one was responding to me. I have become persona non grata.
Except I never wrote anything disparaging or made any threats against anyone. I was completely blindsided by these accusations but I went back to check my activity on this group and found nothing questionable at all. Our department had a lot of problems communicating important information to students so we started this Facebook group to easily keep each other abreast of what was going on and share resources such as helpful videos that further explained course content.
There were a few students who had written less than professional comments and I know two of these students are employed in hospital jobs right now so they probably got letters before their comments were discovered. I wrote nothing unprofessional and I feel like I am being singled out because they can no longer hurt those other students.
I know I can't force anyone to recommend me, but I find it suspicious that professors who already gave their assent that they would are now ignoring me, especially since I was the valedictorian of the class. It feels like I have been put on an informal blacklist without any chance to defend myself.
I feel like without letters of recommendation my job prospects are severely limited and I'm not sure of what to do about this.
I had considered speaking with the head of the department (who I don't really know, but who sees me as a troublemaker because once when I had an issue with a professor who repeatedly misgraded my exams and refused to fix them, I asked Student Services how to handle it which was a huge no-no. Apparently the nursing department does not like anyone going outside the nursing department for help) but I feel like her response will be that she can't make anyone write me a letter. Which is true. If I bring up what that professor told me in confidence, I could be putting her job in jeopardy.
I can't really see a way forward and I really feel like all the time, effort and energy I spent on this program could have been better invested elsewhere.
As others have said, the school is not legally obligated to give you a letter of recommendation/reference. You could try talking to a lawyer to see if they could enforce any verbal promises of a letter being written, but honestly I don't see that getting very far. After all, people do have the right to change their minds, and it's not as though they deceived you. They'd tell the judge that they read negative comments posted in a group that you were a part of and that they no longer felt comfortable writing any letters, and IMO they'd probably prevail.
Still, if you have the money to throw at going that route, you could. You'd need a lot of luck.
I would see if there are other faculty members, perhaps those not involved in the nursing program, who could write you letters of recommendations. Also consider any clinical instructor, even if you were not close to them: maybe there is one removed enough from the situation and who is willing to write. And consider getting letters from employers both current and past.
And while it's too late for you, there's a great take-away for other students here: watch what you say on Facebook. Even a closed/secret group is no guarantee that what is posted in it will remain secret. It just takes one slip of security settings, one member deciding to share all, or one person joining that you're not familiar with and who could have been faculty themselves.
Also, just because you're posting something negative but factual doesn't mean that the school won't react to it: after all, if someone wrote something negative--but indeed true--about you, wouldn't you feel incensed as well?
And as unfair as it is...even if you didn't actually post anything negative, it's very easy for the school to presume you "guilty" by association. And once you are tagged that, it can be very tough for you to clear your name. Yet another reason to be careful about your online activities.
Sorry that you got caught in this mess. I hope everything works out for the best for you.
I always told people that the closed group was a bad idea. It's better to go open and make sure people were cautious with what they said. Ranting and raving is something done to someone who is not in the nursing program face to face.
We had a FB page for our cohort too and sometimes we did vent quite a bit.. we also had members 'sharing' the page with professors. We deleted more than one thread/post for fear that all hell would break loose. I think the politics in nursing school is ridiculous. I'm not at all surprised you're having this issue, but I sure am sorry.
No, you can not require letters of recommendation, however, if there is a blanket 'ban' on letters from your instructors from the top, you may have legal recourse, as this can affect your employment. At the very least, you have a right to know what you're being accused of.
Many, many years ago, when I was a teen (18) I got a part-time job in a department store (around Oct/Nov) I worked through the holiday craziness, along with a bunch of other younger employees. In February, I got called in to security office, where two very scary men accused me of theft, said they had it on tape (a lie) and fired me (I later found out this happened to all the teen/young adult employees hired in the fall). They interrogated me and tried to get me to put in writing I stole, which I refused (I never took anything and even being young and scared I wouldn't sign something that wasn't true). When I got home, crying, I told my dad what had happened (I was trying SO hard to figure out what on earth I could have done to make it look like I was stealing)-- my dad, being a wiser person, realized that they were just trying to get people to confess, and were also trying to weed out the over staffing (because the holidays were over) without getting unemployment claims. He drove me back up to the store, DEMANDED to talk to the two security officers, and they both right in front of me denied accusing me of anything, and said they were just investigating inventory losses and that I wasn't a suspect, they were just asking questions. It was all a big misunderstanding and I still had a job. At that point, I would never have worked there again. The next place we stopped was a a layers office.
Fast forward a week, I get a call from human resources telling me I have a check for unused vacation and sick pay and a letter of reference for any future employment (I had NO vacation or sick time prior to this incident because I wasn't an eligible employee). Long story short, a letter from a layer goes a long way.
I'm still shaking my head over the "lawyer up" notion.
So, get a lawyer, they send a nastigram to the school who sends up the white flag... "OK, we'll write a letter tomorrow."
~~~~~~~~
To whom it may concern:
Please find this letter of reference for PolishGirlRN.
As one of our graduates, she is well-prepared for any entry-level role for which she might be considered. She was a solid student who was an engaged student and an active participant in activities and online student discussion groups.
As her transcripts demonstrate, she excelled in several of her courses by earning A grades.
We believe that she has the educational background to be a successful nurse and that she should be considered a solid candidate among those seeking new-grad positions.
Sincerely,
A-1 School of Nursing
~~~~~~
There, there's a letter... nothing to find fault with and yet... obviously just a templated piece of fluff... what's the lawyer going to say now (besides, that'll be 1,000 dollars, please)?
Basically, a personal relationship with somebody is about the only chance... you're never going to be able to force anything worthwhile.
I'm still shaking my head over the "lawyer up" notion.
So, get a lawyer, they send a nastigram to the school who sends up the white flag... "OK, we'll write a letter tomorrow."
~~~~~~~~
To whom it may concern:
Please find this letter of reference for PolishGirlRN.
As one of our graduates, she is well-prepared for any entry-level role for which she might be considered. She was a solid student who was an engaged student and an active participant in activities and online student discussion groups.
As her transcripts demonstrate, she excelled in several of her courses by earning A grades.
We believe that she has the educational background to be a successful nurse and that she should be considered a solid candidate among those seeking new-grad positions.
Sincerely,
A-1 School of Nursing
~~~~~~
There, there's a letter... nothing to find fault with and yet... obviously just a templated piece of fluff... what's the lawyer going to say now (besides, that'll be 1,000 dollars, please)?
Basically, a personal relationship with somebody is about the only chance... you're never going to be able to force anything worthwhile.
(Actually, I'll bet any letter generated in response to threats by an attorney would be even more vague and lukewarm than that ...)
I also want to add that nothing posted was factually incorrect. Some students had their paperwork messed up and they complained about it. It wasn't personal attacks or anything. I believe that this informal blacklisting is happening because I can't formally be censured due to complete lack of wrongdoing. This way, I have no avenue with which to defend myself.
No "personal attacks or anything"? Earlier you said the page included "death threats." Which is it? If students were actually threatening faculty on the page, they're probably lucky they're not getting investigated by the police.
No "personal attacks or anything"? Earlier you said the page included "death threats." Which is it? If students were actually threatening faculty on the page, they're probably lucky they're not getting investigated by the police.
This is because we are only hearing half of a one-sided story. I have noticed quite a lot of back tracking going on here by the OP. There absolutely had to be derogatory and inflammatory comments if someone actually took the time to show it to the professors. This is not about some misplaced paperwork that someone vented about on facebook. There were apparently some huge issues going on here. Whether the OP participated or not I have no idea, but the fact they were apart of the group and didn't distance themselves makes them guilty by association. They are saying it happened after graduation so they probably thought the school could not take any action against them since they had their diplomas. Well, here is the recourse. They may not be able to take your degree but they sure as heck don't have to write a recommendation letter.
No "personal attacks or anything"? Earlier you said the page included "death threats." Which is it? If students were actually threatening faculty on the page, they're probably lucky they're not getting investigated by the police.
I'm saying that the accusations were overblown. The professor I spoke to said there were death threats but there were no such things posted on the page. It is possible that someone wrote something and then deleted it before I saw anything. Like I mentioned earlier, this occurred after graduation so it wasn't a page I was frequenting by then.
I'm saying that the accusations were overblown. The professor I spoke to said there were death threats but there were no such things posted on the page. It is possible that someone wrote something and then deleted it before I saw anything. Like I mentioned earlier, this occurred after graduation so it wasn't a page I was frequenting by then.
But one person was able to print it out before it was deleted...and there you go...
No, you can not require letters of recommendation, however, if there is a blanket 'ban' on letters from your instructors from the top, you may have legal recourse, as this can affect your employment. At the very least, you have a right to know what you're being accused of.
Unless a letter of recommendation was guaranteed in the enrollment contract, the school isn't obligated to do anything. As far as affecting employment, the school isn't stopping her from finding a job, and there's no mandate stating that letters of recommendation have to be from the school or that the school even has to help her in the job hunt (unless, again, that was in the terms of the enrollment contract), so that's argument is pretty much out the window.
I'm one of the first people to recommend seeking legal counsel when needed...I wonder how many people have been referred to TAANA from my links. However, in this case, I think a lawyer would be more of a waste of money. Of course, the OP should get the free consultation and let the lawyer determine if there's something worth pursuing. But the best outcome I can see coming from legal action is--as others have already pointed out--her getting a forced letter of recommendation from the school and a $1000 legal bill. And that letter is going to be so template and lukewarm that it will do little to nothing for the OP, because the lawyer can't force the school or anyone else to gush lovingly about the OP.
IMO, I think she'd do better to go talk to them in person than siccing a lawyer on them, since they'll probably respond with more warmth to her than to an attorney. But if a lawyer is the route the OP wants to try and she can afford that bill, then best of luck to her.
I'm stunned that I'm opposing llg but in this case my response is, "yeah, because there's nothing like a letter from an attorney to provoke a stellar letter of recommendation."
I think your *only* real option is to approach someone in person and discuss the realities of the situation.
I'm also stunned to find myself in vehement disagreement with llg's position.
This is another example of the lack of understanding that every individual is free to have whatever opinions s/he wishes, and is *free* to express them, but the expectation that there will be no reaction / consequences for that expression is an unrealistic fantasy.
And as for the suggestion that this unfortunate situation has something - anything - to do with "people in the nursing profession" ... do a quick poll of folks in any other profession/field of study. Pose the following question:
"Suppose that a group of graduating students posted derogatory remarks about a department and its educators on a Facebook group. After being shown the remarks, how likely would the instructors be to respond positively to requests from members of this graduating class for letters of recommendations?"
Meriwhen, ASN, BSN, MSN, RN
4 Articles; 7,907 Posts
As others have said, the school is not legally obligated to give you a letter of recommendation/reference. You could try talking to a lawyer to see if they could enforce any verbal promises of a letter being written, but honestly I don't see that getting very far. After all, people do have the right to change their minds, and it's not as though they deceived you. They'd tell the judge that they read negative comments posted in a group that you were a part of and that they no longer felt comfortable writing any letters, and IMO they'd probably prevail.
Still, if you have the money to throw at going that route, you could. You'd need a lot of luck.
I would see if there are other faculty members, perhaps those not involved in the nursing program, who could write you letters of recommendations. Also consider any clinical instructor, even if you were not close to them: maybe there is one removed enough from the situation and who is willing to write. And consider getting letters from employers both current and past.
And while it's too late for you, there's a great take-away for other students here: watch what you say on Facebook. Even a closed/secret group is no guarantee that what is posted in it will remain secret. It just takes one slip of security settings, one member deciding to share all, or one person joining that you're not familiar with and who could have been faculty themselves.
Also, just because you're posting something negative but factual doesn't mean that the school won't react to it: after all, if someone wrote something negative--but indeed true--about you, wouldn't you feel incensed as well?
And as unfair as it is...even if you didn't actually post anything negative, it's very easy for the school to presume you "guilty" by association. And once you are tagged that, it can be very tough for you to clear your name. Yet another reason to be careful about your online activities.
Sorry that you got caught in this mess. I hope everything works out for the best for you.