Betrayed by my Program

[TheSquire, DNP, EMT-B, APN, NP]

Schools are there to do two things. 1) Get more money for the profit margin and 2) help you pass the NCLEX. It sounds to me like they are doing exactly that if they have 500 applicants a year and have a 100% pass rate.

Do schools weed people out if they think they won't be able to pass the NCLEX? Sure they do. A 100% NCLEX pass rate is a great selling point to help the school earn more money.

My personal thought is that more weeding should be done in the admissions process so there's fewer students who fail out. The more students fail out mean that there's that many semesters of tuition money that's just been lost. I recently graduated and my cohort of 4o-some lost two members - one due to willful stupidity, one because they simply couldn't hack it. If a cohort loses half its members in the first term, the school is doing something wrong.

It makes me SO mad when people can't just commiserate, and continuously take the instructor's side in a STUDENT forum. Let us have an outlet - please! If you are an RN already and want to get your jollies off complaining about the students - you have your own forum! I hope I'm never so far removed from nursing school after I graduate and become licensed that I forget the negatives of it, or the poor experiences I did have, to openly discuss and advise students in a loving manner. And I love my nursing school, and 90% of my instructors have been fantastic, but I can't deny that there are some problems within our program and curriculum, as there is at every school. I refuse to be a sheep that just says, "Oh well, that's the way it is" and I so dislike those individuals. They are the ones that will go on to work in the hospital that needs an overhaul, but will accept the status quo and won't care to speak up, fight, and inspire their co-workers to elicit change!

This wasn't an arrogant, condescending, or "woe is me" post by the OP. This was someone with legitimate concerns about her program that she communicated in a calm and logical manner.

I have to echo CBsMommy on this one. I've found that the amount a poster in the student sections of allnurses.com complains about their own program is inversely proportional to their GPA. If you're been around here a while, you get rather jaded to long screeds about various programs. However, since the OP was thoughtful enough to use paragraphs and had obviously made it through some other academic program as evidenced by their use of vocabulary (though in a somewhat odd manner...), I was willing to actually read the whole post. kgh31386's post was well written in that it asked for clarification in a neutral manner, and the OP's reply revealed that while a few of her complaints are actual non-issues, there are serious structural problems with the program he or she attends.

I did what I had to do to pass (easy) and didn't spend ANY time online rambling on about fault and blame. There. There's my secret.

Again, if you interviewed the students who failed my program, they'd say all the things you said. And yet, I passed and didn't find my program to be anything at all like the failing students had described. Funny how that is...

I was actually looking for an answer to a critical thinking question that involved a set of exacerbating circumstances. I find it peculiar that you have found enough time to browse forums and demean others yet you lack the ability to read information in its entirety and provide specifics. I've never spoken up about this before even after watching unfair events run their course and I speak mostly in the defense of my peers who were shafted, I'm a pretty lousy "white knight" because most of the damage has been done.

I am in an RN program that is very difficult. It has an extremely high pass rate and that is what's most important. Sure the stress level is high, but nursing can be very stressful. In my mind if I can pass this program, I can pass the NCLEX and that is the main goal. If you don't pass the NCLEX, then it was all a waste. In nursing we students as well as nurses and the professors (who by the way are nurses and have worked in the field) we have to do what we call critical thinking. Why can't you go on your class web site and post questions about the material where you are confused. Someone will respond and a teacher or two my even respond. This would be getting the support and knowledge from your peers who are in the class. Also when you take the time to explain it to someone else, you know you have it down. Instead of putting your focus on the bad and neg. take the time to figure out how to make it better. Good luck

Schools are there to do two things. 1) Get more money for the profit margin and 2) help you pass the NCLEX. It sounds to me like they are doing exactly that if they have 500 applicants a year and have a 100% pass rate.

Do schools weed people out if they think they won't be able to pass the NCLEX? Sure they do. A 100% NCLEX pass rate is a great selling point to help the school earn more money.

If they let anyone with a 74.9% slide into the next semester, where would it stop? If that student wasn't able to pass that class, how could they ever possibly pass NCLEX? If I were you and a friend didn't pass by that margin, I would see where they needed help, help them, and let them re-apply to pick up where they left off. If they were truly suicidal, I would help refer them to some outside agency to help them because at that point, it's beyond me.

Case in point, I missed my A last semester by one question on a test. ONE QUESTION. Not a percentage point but less than a 10th of a percentage point. Who's to blame? I am. Not the instructors, not the school, not even the test questions. Me. That's called accepting responsibility for one's own actions which is something we have to do as adult learners.

And, OP, like you said. You googled it. Do other schools really sound any different? You could go to another school and get wrapped up in even more problems or at the very least, run into different issues.

So, I have to agree with CCL RN. As many of the students in my class love to complain and sound just like you, I have a better time of nursing school because I don't focus on blaming or finger pointing. I do what I have to do to get by and stay positive. This is something that I chose to do for myself and my future. It's a short time in the grand scheme of things. If you don't like it, do something else. If you do stick with it, a better attitude will go a long way. Good luck.

I have to agree with the above posts from Catz, CBs, and CCL RN...although mine was labeled as mean haha and not being supportive. It's not about support, it's about constructive criticism. If 1 person passed, everyone CAN pass. I highly doubt they have a bunch of nurses around who just get off on failing people. You say you have great clinical instructors, have you gone to them about this?

I can't really respond to someone who doesn't read my posts. I never for one second doubted that nursing is stressful, and I already outlined the fact that most of my instructors are not a reliable resource for questions and help. Its very frustrating. One time I actually went and visited my old A&P instructor because I was getting nowhere with the staff, and it still amazes me that I can pick any subject out of our giant old book and she can lean into it and give me the explanation I need, whereas my instructors pick a set of individual topics from our book and that's it. They refuse to touch anything slightly outside their scope of teaching and it throws me completely off when they can't crossover grounded concepts and points with even basic details like commonly used pharmaceuticals. For one drug I'll have 3 different interpretations of what that drug is and used for and if I relied solely on the word of my teachers, you could never guess they were the same drug without the name. My peers and I lean very heavily on each other to fill in the massive holes in our comprehension, but sometimes you just need guidance, and you shouldn't have to take two hours to answer a question that could have been addressed in five minutes.

My clinical instructor this term is great, but they are new to the program so they are limited in their influence and understandably don't want to rock the boat.

It makes me SO mad when people can't just commiserate, and continuously take the instructor's side in a STUDENT forum. Let us have an outlet - please! If you are an RN already and want to get your jollies off complaining about the students - you have your own forum! I hope I'm never so far removed from nursing school after I graduate and become licensed that I forget the negatives of it, or the poor experiences I did have, to openly discuss and advise students in a loving manner. And I love my nursing school, and 90% of my instructors have been fantastic, but I can't deny that there are some problems within our program and curriculum, as there is at every school. I refuse to be a sheep that just says, "Oh well, that's the way it is" and I so dislike those individuals. They are the ones that will go on to work in the hospital that needs an overhaul, but will accept the status quo and won't care to speak up, fight, and inspire their co-workers to elicit change!

This wasn't an arrogant, condescending, or "woe is me" post by the OP. This was someone with legitimate concerns about her program that she communicated in a calm and logical manner.

OP - I understand what you mean when you say that some things are subjective or confusing unless you are in your instructor's head, like the correct way to communicate with your patient, or which teaching point is the most important to make when they both are high up on Maslow's hierarchy.

I also find it absolutely absurd that your instructors refuse to admit their mistakes when presented with evidence, and rely on the textbook to cover their butt. There should not be this idea that the instructors are infallible, especially when it comes to something as simply as correct medical terms. As well, instructors should be supportive of students coming to them with concerns about the exams. Every single course that I have had, my instructors have had course representatives (not necessarily the same students every semester) which meet from 1-3 times a semester with the primary course coordinator and discuss concerns with everything about the course. We are given a chance to provide feedback, we have opportunities to get out of class support with free tutors, and our clinicals have a bit of wiggle room for when it comes to mistakes. You have to do something very, very bad (like almost killing someone bad) to get booted from our program for one mistake. Do they hand out clinical day unsatisfactories like candy? Oh yes, definitely, and I have had a total of 5% deducted from my final grades due to 3 separate unsatisfactories while in nursing school. These were due to mistakes ranging from tardiness to not looking at my patient's arm band after asking them to state name & DOB during med administration.

What you have described is NOT what a normal nursing program should look like, and please don't let these post-grads tell you otherwise. I would recommend that you start keeping track of discrepancies like this, with name, date, and course, so that when you do graduate and pass your NCLEX, you can have the power to do something to change it for incoming nursing students if you wish to fight the good fight on the other side.

Hang in there, though - you deserve it! Then do your best to dissuade other students from applying to the program on the down low, or go public with the information with a group of your peers post-graduation. That's the best you can do at this point, in my opinion.

Thank you!! It does a lot to know someones listening. My point has been grounded on the question of where does one draw the line between what works and what is ethical. I hate it when people just reduce it to "Suck it up or quit". This is not a job, this is an education. This is my entire life. We have sacrificed our work, families, relationships, and even our health to keep up with ungrounded demands that are unsupported and totally ridiculous. This isn't a demand for coddling, its about fairness and abuse of power.

My personal thought is that more weeding should be done in the admissions process so there's fewer students who fail out. The more students fail out mean that there's that many semesters of tuition money that's just been lost. I recently graduated and my cohort of 4o-some lost two members - one due to willful stupidity, one because they simply couldn't hack it. If a cohort loses half its members in the first term, the school is doing something wrong.

I have to echo CBsMommy on this one. I've found that the amount a poster in the student sections of allnurses.com complains about their own program is inversely proportional to their GPA. If you're been around here a while, you get rather jaded to long screeds about various programs. However, since the OP was thoughtful enough to use paragraphs and had obviously made it through some other academic program as evidenced by their use of vocabulary (though in a somewhat odd manner...), I was willing to actually read the whole post. kgh31386's post was well written in that it asked for clarification in a neutral manner, and the OP's reply revealed that while a few of her complaints are actual non-issues, there are serious structural problems with the program he or she attends.

I couldn't agree more about the admissions process. We went through heavy scrutiny to get here to prove we take things seriously. However, what is going on here is simply a waste of potential in my opinion. Good students who would make fantastic nurses are getting tossed aside because a lack of coordination, direction, and instruction from our teachers. I don't understand our programs budget and I guess I'm interested to know how much it worth to dump so many good students over keeping a spotless pass rate. GPA in my program is quite meaningless, though I struck an average B, my biased impressions from the HESI was that GPA was a terrible predictor of comprehension and application. Nearly everyone I know who got their license over the summer was a B or C student. This year I do not know of one person who currently has an A, and we've already lost a handful of students this year who had A's last year.

Thanks for all your responses, I will consider all the advice, even the condescending stuff from the Super nurses.

[catz123]

just let me start by saying that in my last post I wanted to say that our school has an extremely high pass rate for the NCLEX. Also I am currently a nursing student. I think it to great to be an advocate for yourself, but it is how you do it. I have seen students yell at the professors and last year the school had to lock all the doors except for one because a teacher was threatened. As a future nurse we have to look at the big picture. Get all the facts, come up with a solution or at least a direction, then present the problem. No whinning, no complaining. Nursing school is very very difficult. It just gets more and more difficult. If you want things to change then play the game, get the education and put yourself in the position where you can impliment that change. Until then suck it up, and don't give up.

It makes me SO mad when people can't just commiserate, and continuously take the instructor's side in a STUDENT forum. Let us have an outlet - please! If you are an RN already and want to get your jollies off complaining about the students - you have your own forum! I hope I'm never so far removed from nursing school after I graduate and become licensed that I forget the negatives of it, or the poor experiences I did have, to openly discuss and advise students in a loving manner.

I'm glad that you will accept problems in your nursing school (and most likely your future place of employment) without speaking up, but that's not for all of us.

I think you should calm down just a bit. Who here is "complaining" about students? They are simply not having sympathy. And your responses are very judgmental. How is it that you can tell that the other poster will be accepting any problems in their school or workplace? They might not have any problem. You basically called them weak. And don't tell me I'm far removed from nursing based on the fact that I provided neutral feedback on a couple of possible solutions. It's not about taking anyone's "side". And so what if people do side with the instructors? I was simply asking for facts about what the options are for the OP. And it's true that several times students will complain about unfairness when in reality the instructor has done nothing wrong. There's no rule stating where an instructor must get test info from. There's no limit on how much they can test you over.

Then do your best to dissuade other students from applying to the program on the down low, or go public with the information with a group of your peers post-graduation. That's the best you can do at this point, in my opinion.

If you do slander a school who has 500+ applicants and a high NCLEX pass rate...I see nothing but bad things for you with regards to job prospects local and distant. Most of the time when you apply to hospitals (regardless of location), you speak with recruiters who will probably learn all about your slandering of the school. Not to mention, if they are truly mad they could sue you for public slander. In my opinion, that's a bad idea.

Edited Nov 24, 2010 by kgh31386

Ok, so I'll be honest first by saying I only read about 3/4ths of the way down the first page, so some (or all ) of this may have already been said.

First of all, you are where you are right now. Yes, it is possible that they promised the moon and won't (or can't) deliver. Now you can either a) make a change and thus have the right to gripe about where you've been (or educate prospective students on realistic expectations of your previous program), or b) figure out how to make it work.

Granted, changing programs is a mountain all it's own, in regards to time, money, frustration, etc. But so is what you're doing right now. So, pick which mountain you want to move, commit to it, and don't stop until you're done. One thing I have learned, however (through 2 previous BS degrees, 1 failed marriage, 2 successful startup companies and 1 failed one), is that AFTER you've made your commitment, reminding yourself and everyone around you how awful it is only sets you up for failure. It's ok that you feel that certain things aren't ideal; acknowledge those thoughts and briskly send them on their way out of your mind.

Hang in there. Things DO get better. Keep your eye on the prize. And if all else fails, watch any of the Rocky movies and listen to "Eye of the Tiger" in your car on the way to school/clinicals. :)

Sending good thoughts your way. :)

jen

PS - By all means, vent when you need to - it is the only way to keep your sanity sometimes. But if you don't want every sentence scrutinized and debated, just say you're venting. Lord knows we all need it sometimes! :)

Edited Nov 24, 2010 by jenniferclare
eta: ps

I think you should calm down just a bit. Who here is "complaining" about students? They are simply not having sympathy. And your responses are very judgmental. How is it that you can tell that the other poster will be accepting any problems in their school or workplace? They might not have any problem. You basically called them weak. And don't tell me I'm far removed from nursing based on the fact that I provided neutral feedback on a couple of possible solutions. It's not about taking anyone's "side". And so what if people do side with the instructors? I was simply asking for facts about what the options are for the OP. And it's true that several times students will complain about unfairness when in reality the instructor has done nothing wrong. There's no rule stating where an instructor must get test info from. There's no limit on how much they can test you over.

If you do slander a school who has 500+ applicants and a high NCLEX pass rate...I see nothing but bad things for you with regards to job prospects local and distant. Most of the time when you apply to hospitals (regardless of location), you speak with recruiters who will probably learn all about your slandering of the school. Not to mention, if they are truly mad they could sue you for public slander. In my opinion, that's a bad idea.

you can not slander with the truth....

The truth is, none of us are in their program so we don't know the exact details. But they have 500+ people apply for that program, AND they have high NCLEX pass rates...it sounds like a tough program that delivers nurses who can pass the NCLEX. If the things really are that cruel and impossible, then some of the graduates from past semesters could have gone public. To the OP, has anyone done that in the past, or are the reviews of the school good?

[BeenThereDoneThat74, MSN, RN]

If a cohort loses half its members in the first term, the school is doing something wrong.

True, but not entirely.

-it depends on your programs criteria for admission. Remember, a school is a business, and they want to stay in business. Therefore if they have 100 seats to fill, and they will be the top 100 (even if 50 of those 100 fall below what is normaally considered 'desirable'). especially the for-profit schools. Before you get into the school, you are just a number and a check (and some keep this mentality going afterward, but not all). Those who fall on the lower end (the wait-listed studetns who are called in at the last minute) are being set up for failure. This menality will guarantee failure of many students within the first semester.

So, even assuming that all the accepted applicants fall within the standard of 'desirable' (3.5 or better, lets say). Usually within the first semester, the men are separated from the boys... those who 'can do it' and those who cannot. Regardless of GPA going into the program. You can have a 4.0 but have no common sense, no ability to critically think, no ability to THINK (this also means learning something valuable from an instructors real life story, as opposed to just us blurting out facts, signs and symptoms). If the programs first semester is not challenging enough, then they will slip through and fall in the second semester (as they do where I now teach, and where I taught before).

I'm not even going to go near some of the other comments here. All I will say is I frequent the student's forum in an attempt to give advice to frustrated and struggling students, as well as gain insight into the mind of the student. The more I get into you minds, the more frustrated I become, because the underlying theme is often 'the instructors are the enemy' and no one ever fails just because they are not cut out for this type of work. I wanted to be a dancer when I was a teen ager. I am not, and it's not my dance teacher's fault. I just wasn't as good enough.

The more I get into you minds, the more frustrated I become, because the underlying theme is often 'the instructors are the enemy' and no one ever fails just because they are not cut out for this type of work. I wanted to be a dancer when I was a teen ager. I am not, and it's not my dance teacher's fault. I just wasn't as good enough.

Our own various good and bad experiences in school with instructors and fellow students surely color our perception of and reaction to student-expressed frustrations.

I agree that nursing school *should* be tough, tough enough to ensure students know what they need to know and take it seriously. My experience was that some aspects of nursing school were difficult in some needless ways and *too easy* in other ways that seemed more important to professional practice.

I agree that some students are too quick to blame the instructors for their own inadequacies. However, some instructors do seem to make the process more difficult than it need be. It's inherently difficult, no need to add unnecessary obstacles! Such as instructors who refuse to give any clear example of what they are looking for in a care plan, then tear your care plan apart, and when you ask for further clarification about what they want to see in a care plan, they accuse of you of trying to get them to do your work for you.

I also agree that some aren't cut out for nursing, just like some aren't cut out for dancing. Still, Nurse educate, you might very well have been a 'good enough' to be a dancer - to teach dance to children, to join a community dance club. Very few dancers in the world will be good enough and dedicated enough to become the dancer of your dreams such as a professional ballerina or a back-up dancer for Janet Jackson. Nursing standards should be as high as they need to be for patient safety, but most any smart, hard-working person should be able to meet those minimum standards with concerted effort and good instruction. That doesn't mean most any smart, hard-working person would do well as a bedside acute care nurse, but bedside acute care nursing supposedly isn't the core of nursing practice... or is it? A debate for another day...

I'm going to go with another bullet point response..I do have a few questions

1. How were you baited exactly? I would have just done some research and seen what recent graduates and current students have said about the program. Can you go to the dean with your concerns?

2. If they have a 100% pass rate, how many students are in each of the graduating classes? Because a 100% pass rate is usually indicative of adequate preparation from their school.

3. As a student, what grounds do you have to judge the teacher's method(s)? There are countless threads on here about how students try to "one up" their instructors instead of sitting back and really thinking about what's being told. This isn't meant to be attacking or angry, but you're a student..they're the teacher. If the teachers were REALLY that bad, the accrediting body would have heard about it and done something. Every few years the school is evaluated in order to determine their accreditation status. If the school is that bad, they wouldn't be accredited. The committees look at student evaluations, grades, pass rates, etc.

4. Your friends who failed and were on brink of suicide...you say they failed for no reason. There would have to be a reason they failed. You say it's full of 4.0 students, I doubt EVERYONE has a 4.0...and straight A student or not, some people will fail. A lot of students have a 4.0 in pre-req courses and fail in numerous majors, degrees, etc. You can make it into pharmacy school, med school, law school, etc. and fail out.

5. If the bar were impossibly high, people would not attend the program, nor would anyone graduate. If it were really that horrible and unfair, why would they have 500 applicants? I'm sure not everyone of those 500 is baited.

6. It's also interesting you judge the test questions as being subjective. Like I've said before, if one person can pass...the others can as well. I also doubt they really have 10+ questions wrong on the exams. Do you have the opportunity to show them exactly where the question has an error?

7. I wouldn't get an attorney because the truth is..people are passing, and their NCLEX pass rate is 100%. If your friends harm themselves, they have no grounds to blame the program. MIT has the highest suicide rates and people still strive their hardest to go there. It's one of the hardest schools in the nation, and some people can't take the stress..but others can.

8. And test questions will have 2 right answers sometimes, maybe 3. But the proof is somewhere in the book, notes, or they may have just said it in lecture. Just because it's not in the book, or notes doesn't mean the instructor didn't say it. I've heard students say "omg that wasn't in the notes or the book!". Well the instructor said it as a side note or as an example, and the student might have been on their laptop, texting, sleeping, or not even in class..whose fault is that?

To sum it all up, if it's really that awful..you should look at another program. You say you have a license, you can work under that license until you find a suitable program. You should do some research into beforehand though. I hope it all works out.

...but seriously, what are you trying to say

[decembergrad2011, BSN, RN]

I think you should calm down just a bit. Who here is "complaining" about students? They are simply not having sympathy. And your responses are very judgmental. How is it that you can tell that the other poster will be accepting any problems in their school or workplace? They might not have any problem. You basically called them weak. And don't tell me I'm far removed from nursing based on the fact that I provided neutral feedback on a couple of possible solutions. It's not about taking anyone's "side". And so what if people do side with the instructors? I was simply asking for facts about what the options are for the OP. And it's true that several times students will complain about unfairness when in reality the instructor has done nothing wrong. There's no rule stating where an instructor must get test info from. There's no limit on how much they can test you over.

If you do slander a school who has 500+ applicants and a high NCLEX pass rate...I see nothing but bad things for you with regards to job prospects local and distant. Most of the time when you apply to hospitals (regardless of location), you speak with recruiters who will probably learn all about your slandering of the school. Not to mention, if they are truly mad they could sue you for public slander. In my opinion, that's a bad idea.

Being scared of the consequences of something doesn't mean it's the wrong thing to do. If there was a school that was falsely advertising and unwilling to change, and marketing themselves as something they were not, I would definitely be the type of person to go to someone about it. Schools might be accredited, but in the ways that hospitals can pass Joint Commission standards during an inspection and still not follow them every other day. I'm not talking about a national ad campaign or an announcement in the middle of town. This program sounds like it is purposely attempting to swindle students in some respects, and is not giving a proper education in others.

I believe the content of many posts are not addressing the concerns of the OP and are assuming that she's complaining for no reason simply because she is in a student role. If someone can't see the problems within her program, I have a hard time believing that they will see them in a hospital setting if encountered. Status quo isn't necessarily correct.

At the risk of gossip and staff alienation, my peers convinced me to join with about a dozen or more others who are having similar issues. We're all going to compose letters to the Dean of our nursing program with the intention of clarifying specifics rather then let good students fail out for unjustified reasons unrelated to amounts of effort and intelligence. Contrary to beliefs here on the genesis of my concerns, I'm currently passing my class comfortably, however there are many who are not.

We are taught as nurses to be part of a team and to hold each other up in the times of greatest need. I passed my boards and got my practical license in spite of a fractured education riddled with false promises, as did many others, but our achievements are being used as justification to force grossly unrealistic requirements and personal commitments to compensate for inadequate instructor support. We thrive on a challenge, but without direction it is just a hostile cycle of exhaustion.

Nursing is a path with many faces and not everyone is going to be the pompous ICU or cardiac cath lab nurse who projects their god complex on other nurses because of their slightly uncommon ability to follow a Resident doctors orders exactly and hold a syringe of atropine or bicarb steady during a code. They probably get their due praise in debrief to sustain their ravenous egos, and that's okay with me, but I am none-the-less skeptical of their capacity to stand in a dying strangers home as a hospice nurse and help a family tend to their insurmountable grief and sorrow. One can never be certain. I am comforted that there will always be good mentoring nurses in spite of the shortage and those of us that would rather eat our young.

The real point here is I could look the other way and probably make the cut. I couldn't tell you exactly why, but I can at least say its not because I'm smarter or harder working. My peers, especially the working parents, are my heroes and I would rather stand with them. The reasoning is not entirely altruistic, as evidenced by the fact that if it were the other way around, and I was failing by a inch, I sure as heck would hope someone would stand by me. If anything though, I just hope my actions will help encourage a positive experience of unity and not sink the ship under the weight of the delusion of mutiny.

Thanks for the advice all and wish me luck. Or insurance.

...but seriously, what are you trying to say

I wasn't saying anything, I was asking some neutral questions to get some more detail regarding some stuff...I think some folks should just calm down a bit before they lock the thread. Going to the dean is a good idea. But I really don't think that a school could swindle 100% of it's applicants year after year.

[Silverdragon102, BSN]

closing for staff review

[Silverdragon102, BSN]

ok everyone time to calm down........... members post something for several reasons, vent and let off steam, look for advice from other members on how to handle something are just a couple that quickly comes to mind.

i have removed several posts from the thread as either off topic to the original post or attacking in nature. please remember the terms of service you all agreed to when you joined this site. debates that are constructive and polite are welcome here but attacks on members are not.

debates

we promote the idea of lively debate. this means you are free to disagree with anyone on any type of subject matter as long as your criticism is constructive and polite.

personal attacks

our first priority is to the members that have come here because of the flame-free atmosphere we provide. there is a zero-tolerance policy here against personal attacks. we will not tolerate anyone insulting another individual's opinion nor name calling and will ban repeat offenders.

terms of service

i am reopening this thread however further violations will result in this thread being permanently closed

[Nurse Kyles, BSN, RN]

In regards to use of the SIMs lab, I think that 1-2 times per semester is standard. At my school the first semester we used it twice, while this semester we only used it once. There always seems to be bad instructors. I use ratemyprofessor.com like it is going out of style. I have heard many of the same things you say about your program about mine too. I have not had any of those issues, because I have very carefully selected the instructors I take to ensure a positive learning experience. Good Luck to you.

[decembergrad2011, BSN, RN]

In regards to use of the SIMs lab, I think that 1-2 times per semester is standard. At my school the first semester we used it twice, while this semester we only used it once. There always seems to be bad instructors. I use ratemyprofessor.com like it is going out of style. I have heard many of the same things you say about your program about mine too. I have not had any of those issues, because I have very carefully selected the instructors I take to ensure a positive learning experience. Good Luck to you.

I think that there is a problem with a program if you must pick and choose instructors every semester to ensure a good education. And that's great for you that you have done your research - but what about when the best instructor fills up and the rest of the class is left with substandard classes and professors?

I'll be honest - there is, almost every semester, a "best" and "worst" CI. And inevitably some lecturers put you to sleep while others are awesome. But there shouldn't be such a huge difference in education/opportunity that students need to seek counsel on a rating website.

[Nurse Kyles, BSN, RN]

I think that there is a problem with a program if you must pick and choose instructors every semester to ensure a good education. And that's great for you that you have done your research - but what about when the best instructor fills up and the rest of the class is left with substandard classes and professors?

I'll be honest - there is, almost every semester, a "best" and "worst" CI. And inevitably some lecturers put you to sleep while others are awesome. But there shouldn't be such a huge difference in education/opportunity that students need to seek counsel on a rating website.

At my college there is usually only two instructors who teach any theory class each semester. There is 4-6 different clinical instructors. As you stated, there is usually one who is a little better than the other. Some instructors are not as good with time management, timeliness, or organization. I would prefer to avoid those instructors. Perhaps others students wouldn't find those issues as big of deal. I haven't always gotten my first choice, but that is life.

I think it is pretty rash to say there is a "huge problem with my program," because I use a an instructor rating site to decide which instructors I would prefer to take. I was simply suggesting using it as a tool, if nothing else, to know exactly what you're getting into. All of the reviews on there are personal opinions on individual experiences. It is important to take it with a grain of salt. I mostly look for trends like "instructor is always late". I go to a state technical college. Maybe if I was paying lots of money to go to a private college the fact that all of the instructors are not A+ quality would bother me more.