Betrayed by my Program

[This]

My ASN nursing program is two years long with LPN/LVN diploma after the first year, I'm in the fall term of my second year and I hold a license in nursing.

I have come to the conclusion that my school isn't hard for the sake of being challenging, its hard for the sake of being near impossible. Last year my school had a 100% pass rate for both the LPN and RN NCLEX, although the majority of our class was a C average. I am going flat out say this pass rate has nothing to do with the quality of my program and everything to do with the unbelievable tolerance and my restraint my peers have in the face of overwhelming amounts of total BS.

I can't depend on most all my instructors for anything. I feel like the butt of some hidden joke that I just can't see. The truth of the matter is, me and my classmates were baited into this program after so many promises on how great the program and its instructors were. We were selected from the best of 500 applicants and went though furious scrutiny to just make it into the program, but as soon as we really took off, we were shafted by our instructors. In a class of all 4.0 students we had around 15 people flunk in the first year, we've probably lost half a dozen this year already.

I basically feel like an auto-didactic along with most of my peers because my nursing education is merely an outlet for my faculty to teach me about their own person anecdotes and opinion on how they think a nurse should act. In the rest of my free time I teach myself real nursing school curriculum to build up a real knowledge base for the NCLEX.

I can't depend on any of our curriculum for any consistency from lecture to lecture or instructor to instructor. If they mess up the lecture notes they blame us for not memorizing the reading. If we memorize the reading we're told we should have stuck with the powerpoint. We have had several tests where over 75% failed and where told it was "obviously the students fault." We find errors in their tests all the time and I would estimate they fix maybe one in ten questions that they got wrong or gave us one correct choice between two right answers and no proof to back one up over the other.

We've all invested 2-3 years of commitment, work, and emotions into passing this program. My instructors know this and only use it as more leverage to set the bar impossibly high. They know we have no choice but to comply and try and stay afloat, because the ONLY thing worse then this program is flunking out and having to waste a whole year and a half(or longer) to roll the dice and risk massive uncertainty on another program. There are no retakes or redos. Its pass/fail with a laughable lettergrade attached as an afterthought.

I understand that certainly life is very hard, indifferent, and not always fair, but this is a binary matter of education and measurable objective skills. It should not be ruled by opinion. The risk-benefit ratio of the input of time vs the output of test scores is resting on the edge of a razorblade and I'm getting burnt out. I'm watching students deteriorate into a potentially dangerous states of mind. Two of my classmates failed for no reason beyond a bad luck of the draw and I struggled to talk them down from suicide. I'm on the brink of contacting an attorney because I'm worried that this program will push my friends into harming themselves. They are flunking people by 0.1% when I could easy browse their test questions and find a margin of error around 5%, not counting the subjective questions on transient nursing rhetoric, oops I mean nursing logic.

I have seen no proof that the methods my school uses to force high NCLEX pass rates is anything more then the most reckless and diluted superficial attempt to mask the symptoms of a problem rather then treating the underlying cause.

I'm afraid to talk about it even here because we're forbidden from speaking up about it and I could be axed in the flinch of an eye for violating conduct codes we're forced to sign, but I've been burning the candle at both ends for so long now and I don't know how to turn the other cheek anymore. This does not make me a better nurse. I can beat my head against a brick wall until the cows come home but at the end of the day I'm unconvinced that near-constant state of hopeless panic facilitates a good learning experience.

I don't know what to do.

[kgh31386, BSN, MSN, RN]

The truth is, none of us are in their program so we don't know the exact details. But they have 500+ people apply for that program, AND they have high NCLEX pass rates...it sounds like a tough program that delivers nurses who can pass the NCLEX. If the things really are that cruel and impossible, then some of the graduates from past semesters could have gone public. To the OP, has anyone done that in the past, or are the reviews of the school good?

[BeenThereDoneThat74, MSN, RN]

If a cohort loses half its members in the first term, the school is doing something wrong.

True, but not entirely.

-it depends on your programs criteria for admission. Remember, a school is a business, and they want to stay in business. Therefore if they have 100 seats to fill, and they will be the top 100 (even if 50 of those 100 fall below what is normaally considered 'desirable'). especially the for-profit schools. Before you get into the school, you are just a number and a check (and some keep this mentality going afterward, but not all). Those who fall on the lower end (the wait-listed studetns who are called in at the last minute) are being set up for failure. This menality will guarantee failure of many students within the first semester.

So, even assuming that all the accepted applicants fall within the standard of 'desirable' (3.5 or better, lets say). Usually within the first semester, the men are separated from the boys... those who 'can do it' and those who cannot. Regardless of GPA going into the program. You can have a 4.0 but have no common sense, no ability to critically think, no ability to THINK (this also means learning something valuable from an instructors real life story, as opposed to just us blurting out facts, signs and symptoms). If the programs first semester is not challenging enough, then they will slip through and fall in the second semester (as they do where I now teach, and where I taught before).

I'm not even going to go near some of the other comments here. All I will say is I frequent the student's forum in an attempt to give advice to frustrated and struggling students, as well as gain insight into the mind of the student. The more I get into you minds, the more frustrated I become, because the underlying theme is often 'the instructors are the enemy' and no one ever fails just because they are not cut out for this type of work. I wanted to be a dancer when I was a teen ager. I am not, and it's not my dance teacher's fault. I just wasn't as good enough.

[jjjoy, LPN]

The more I get into you minds, the more frustrated I become, because the underlying theme is often 'the instructors are the enemy' and no one ever fails just because they are not cut out for this type of work. I wanted to be a dancer when I was a teen ager. I am not, and it's not my dance teacher's fault. I just wasn't as good enough.

Our own various good and bad experiences in school with instructors and fellow students surely color our perception of and reaction to student-expressed frustrations.

I agree that nursing school *should* be tough, tough enough to ensure students know what they need to know and take it seriously. My experience was that some aspects of nursing school were difficult in some needless ways and *too easy* in other ways that seemed more important to professional practice.

I agree that some students are too quick to blame the instructors for their own inadequacies. However, some instructors do seem to make the process more difficult than it need be. It's inherently difficult, no need to add unnecessary obstacles! Such as instructors who refuse to give any clear example of what they are looking for in a care plan, then tear your care plan apart, and when you ask for further clarification about what they want to see in a care plan, they accuse of you of trying to get them to do your work for you.

I also agree that some aren't cut out for nursing, just like some aren't cut out for dancing. Still, Nurse educate, you might very well have been a 'good enough' to be a dancer - to teach dance to children, to join a community dance club. Very few dancers in the world will be good enough and dedicated enough to become the dancer of your dreams such as a professional ballerina or a back-up dancer for Janet Jackson. Nursing standards should be as high as they need to be for patient safety, but most any smart, hard-working person should be able to meet those minimum standards with concerted effort and good instruction. That doesn't mean most any smart, hard-working person would do well as a bedside acute care nurse, but bedside acute care nursing supposedly isn't the core of nursing practice... or is it? A debate for another day...

[KeepnItReal]

I'm going to go with another bullet point response..I do have a few questions

1. How were you baited exactly? I would have just done some research and seen what recent graduates and current students have said about the program. Can you go to the dean with your concerns?

2. If they have a 100% pass rate, how many students are in each of the graduating classes? Because a 100% pass rate is usually indicative of adequate preparation from their school.

3. As a student, what grounds do you have to judge the teacher's method(s)? There are countless threads on here about how students try to "one up" their instructors instead of sitting back and really thinking about what's being told. This isn't meant to be attacking or angry, but you're a student..they're the teacher. If the teachers were REALLY that bad, the accrediting body would have heard about it and done something. Every few years the school is evaluated in order to determine their accreditation status. If the school is that bad, they wouldn't be accredited. The committees look at student evaluations, grades, pass rates, etc.

4. Your friends who failed and were on brink of suicide...you say they failed for no reason. There would have to be a reason they failed. You say it's full of 4.0 students, I doubt EVERYONE has a 4.0...and straight A student or not, some people will fail. A lot of students have a 4.0 in pre-req courses and fail in numerous majors, degrees, etc. You can make it into pharmacy school, med school, law school, etc. and fail out.

5. If the bar were impossibly high, people would not attend the program, nor would anyone graduate. If it were really that horrible and unfair, why would they have 500 applicants? I'm sure not everyone of those 500 is baited.

6. It's also interesting you judge the test questions as being subjective. Like I've said before, if one person can pass...the others can as well. I also doubt they really have 10+ questions wrong on the exams. Do you have the opportunity to show them exactly where the question has an error?

7. I wouldn't get an attorney because the truth is..people are passing, and their NCLEX pass rate is 100%. If your friends harm themselves, they have no grounds to blame the program. MIT has the highest suicide rates and people still strive their hardest to go there. It's one of the hardest schools in the nation, and some people can't take the stress..but others can.

8. And test questions will have 2 right answers sometimes, maybe 3. But the proof is somewhere in the book, notes, or they may have just said it in lecture. Just because it's not in the book, or notes doesn't mean the instructor didn't say it. I've heard students say "omg that wasn't in the notes or the book!". Well the instructor said it as a side note or as an example, and the student might have been on their laptop, texting, sleeping, or not even in class..whose fault is that?

To sum it all up, if it's really that awful..you should look at another program. You say you have a license, you can work under that license until you find a suitable program. You should do some research into beforehand though. I hope it all works out.

...but seriously, what are you trying to say

[decembergrad2011, BSN, RN]

I think you should calm down just a bit. Who here is "complaining" about students? They are simply not having sympathy. And your responses are very judgmental. How is it that you can tell that the other poster will be accepting any problems in their school or workplace? They might not have any problem. You basically called them weak. And don't tell me I'm far removed from nursing based on the fact that I provided neutral feedback on a couple of possible solutions. It's not about taking anyone's "side". And so what if people do side with the instructors? I was simply asking for facts about what the options are for the OP. And it's true that several times students will complain about unfairness when in reality the instructor has done nothing wrong. There's no rule stating where an instructor must get test info from. There's no limit on how much they can test you over.

If you do slander a school who has 500+ applicants and a high NCLEX pass rate...I see nothing but bad things for you with regards to job prospects local and distant. Most of the time when you apply to hospitals (regardless of location), you speak with recruiters who will probably learn all about your slandering of the school. Not to mention, if they are truly mad they could sue you for public slander. In my opinion, that's a bad idea.

Being scared of the consequences of something doesn't mean it's the wrong thing to do. If there was a school that was falsely advertising and unwilling to change, and marketing themselves as something they were not, I would definitely be the type of person to go to someone about it. Schools might be accredited, but in the ways that hospitals can pass Joint Commission standards during an inspection and still not follow them every other day. I'm not talking about a national ad campaign or an announcement in the middle of town. This program sounds like it is purposely attempting to swindle students in some respects, and is not giving a proper education in others.

I believe the content of many posts are not addressing the concerns of the OP and are assuming that she's complaining for no reason simply because she is in a student role. If someone can't see the problems within her program, I have a hard time believing that they will see them in a hospital setting if encountered. Status quo isn't necessarily correct.

[This]

At the risk of gossip and staff alienation, my peers convinced me to join with about a dozen or more others who are having similar issues. We're all going to compose letters to the Dean of our nursing program with the intention of clarifying specifics rather then let good students fail out for unjustified reasons unrelated to amounts of effort and intelligence. Contrary to beliefs here on the genesis of my concerns, I'm currently passing my class comfortably, however there are many who are not.

We are taught as nurses to be part of a team and to hold each other up in the times of greatest need. I passed my boards and got my practical license in spite of a fractured education riddled with false promises, as did many others, but our achievements are being used as justification to force grossly unrealistic requirements and personal commitments to compensate for inadequate instructor support. We thrive on a challenge, but without direction it is just a hostile cycle of exhaustion.

Nursing is a path with many faces and not everyone is going to be the pompous ICU or cardiac cath lab nurse who projects their god complex on other nurses because of their slightly uncommon ability to follow a Resident doctors orders exactly and hold a syringe of atropine or bicarb steady during a code. They probably get their due praise in debrief to sustain their ravenous egos, and that's okay with me, but I am none-the-less skeptical of their capacity to stand in a dying strangers home as a hospice nurse and help a family tend to their insurmountable grief and sorrow. One can never be certain. I am comforted that there will always be good mentoring nurses in spite of the shortage and those of us that would rather eat our young.

The real point here is I could look the other way and probably make the cut. I couldn't tell you exactly why, but I can at least say its not because I'm smarter or harder working. My peers, especially the working parents, are my heroes and I would rather stand with them. The reasoning is not entirely altruistic, as evidenced by the fact that if it were the other way around, and I was failing by a inch, I sure as heck would hope someone would stand by me. If anything though, I just hope my actions will help encourage a positive experience of unity and not sink the ship under the weight of the delusion of mutiny.

Thanks for the advice all and wish me luck. Or insurance.

[kgh31386, BSN, MSN, RN]

...but seriously, what are you trying to say

I wasn't saying anything, I was asking some neutral questions to get some more detail regarding some stuff...I think some folks should just calm down a bit before they lock the thread. Going to the dean is a good idea. But I really don't think that a school could swindle 100% of it's applicants year after year.

[Silverdragon102, BSN]

closing for staff review

[Silverdragon102, BSN]

ok everyone time to calm down........... members post something for several reasons, vent and let off steam, look for advice from other members on how to handle something are just a couple that quickly comes to mind.

i have removed several posts from the thread as either off topic to the original post or attacking in nature. please remember the terms of service you all agreed to when you joined this site. debates that are constructive and polite are welcome here but attacks on members are not.

debates

we promote the idea of lively debate. this means you are free to disagree with anyone on any type of subject matter as long as your criticism is constructive and polite.

personal attacks

our first priority is to the members that have come here because of the flame-free atmosphere we provide. there is a zero-tolerance policy here against personal attacks. we will not tolerate anyone insulting another individual's opinion nor name calling and will ban repeat offenders.

terms of service

i am reopening this thread however further violations will result in this thread being permanently closed

[Nurse Kyles, BSN, RN]

In regards to use of the SIMs lab, I think that 1-2 times per semester is standard. At my school the first semester we used it twice, while this semester we only used it once. There always seems to be bad instructors. I use ratemyprofessor.com like it is going out of style. I have heard many of the same things you say about your program about mine too. I have not had any of those issues, because I have very carefully selected the instructors I take to ensure a positive learning experience. Good Luck to you.

[decembergrad2011, BSN, RN]

In regards to use of the SIMs lab, I think that 1-2 times per semester is standard. At my school the first semester we used it twice, while this semester we only used it once. There always seems to be bad instructors. I use ratemyprofessor.com like it is going out of style. I have heard many of the same things you say about your program about mine too. I have not had any of those issues, because I have very carefully selected the instructors I take to ensure a positive learning experience. Good Luck to you.

I think that there is a problem with a program if you must pick and choose instructors every semester to ensure a good education. And that's great for you that you have done your research - but what about when the best instructor fills up and the rest of the class is left with substandard classes and professors?

I'll be honest - there is, almost every semester, a "best" and "worst" CI. And inevitably some lecturers put you to sleep while others are awesome. But there shouldn't be such a huge difference in education/opportunity that students need to seek counsel on a rating website.

[Nurse Kyles, BSN, RN]

I think that there is a problem with a program if you must pick and choose instructors every semester to ensure a good education. And that's great for you that you have done your research - but what about when the best instructor fills up and the rest of the class is left with substandard classes and professors?

I'll be honest - there is, almost every semester, a "best" and "worst" CI. And inevitably some lecturers put you to sleep while others are awesome. But there shouldn't be such a huge difference in education/opportunity that students need to seek counsel on a rating website.

At my college there is usually only two instructors who teach any theory class each semester. There is 4-6 different clinical instructors. As you stated, there is usually one who is a little better than the other. Some instructors are not as good with time management, timeliness, or organization. I would prefer to avoid those instructors. Perhaps others students wouldn't find those issues as big of deal. I haven't always gotten my first choice, but that is life.

I think it is pretty rash to say there is a "huge problem with my program," because I use a an instructor rating site to decide which instructors I would prefer to take. I was simply suggesting using it as a tool, if nothing else, to know exactly what you're getting into. All of the reviews on there are personal opinions on individual experiences. It is important to take it with a grain of salt. I mostly look for trends like "instructor is always late". I go to a state technical college. Maybe if I was paying lots of money to go to a private college the fact that all of the instructors are not A+ quality would bother me more.