Becoming too thin skinned?

Hoosier_RN, MSN · Jan 28, 2019

Sadly, this is the nature of healthcare today, anything can be taken as offensive. But, before you say anything that isn't medically factual, ALWAYS make sure that you know your audience. I hope everything works out for your classmate. But let this be a lesson to all, sad as it is

LPNTORN704 · Jan 28, 2019

I agree she was very unprofessional and that wasnt a joke .That patient could be suffering from depression and her saying that doesnt make things any better.

kbrn2002, ADN, RN · Jan 29, 2019

She learned an expensive but valuable lesson. Think before you speak is a cliche for a good reason. Obviously that ended up not being a setting where jokes like that are considered OK. Frankly a joke like that with both racial and sexual undertones isn't acceptable in any professional setting, maybe not in any social setting unless you really know the people you are with.

While I am sure she didn't mean to offend anybody it's still justifiable to fail her for that clinical rotation based solely on the poor decision to joke around with a resident using a movie quote that is at best no longer politically correct and at worst highly offensive to women of color.

This was a major mistake on her part. Especially since she was a student representing her school in that facility. Student's are there as a guest of the facility that agrees to host as a clinical site and those sites are not always easy to secure for the school. It is expected that student's always be on their best, professional behavior at a clinical site, sadly an off color joke no matter how innocent doesn't portray that needed professional image.

Ruby Vee, BSN · Jan 30, 2019

It doesn't sound as though you were there to witness the incident, and it's possible that it didn't go down exactly as she said it did. You don't know -- and neither do we -- if it's right how her remark was taken. I don't know whether failing her was justified -- I wasn't there.

The thing is, any remark you make can be taken poorly by anyone who is listening, and you never know for sure how someone is going to take it. So you have to know your audience AND watch what you say. It's an expensive lesson for your classmate; I hope you and the rest of your class learn from her mistake.

CariLynn · Feb 2, 2019

Your right, I wasn't there as we all were tasked to our assigned nurses. But talking to her, she is the last person who would ever show any disrespect. We talked about it as she was part of our cohort, and now know, it wasn't the pt that took it wrong, but the nurse who over heard her, who went running to her supervisor, who lords over the place.

We have shown up their nurses a few times, caught things that their "experienced" nurses should of but did not, and take care of the tasks they put off till the very last, such as stage 3 - 4 pressure sores. Never a thank you or way to go to any of us, just an eye roll or snort from their supervisor. So of course, we wonder if this was the excuse she needed to show us that she still ruled the roost so to speak there.

The school itself is being extremely hard on her, both emotionally and financially. She paid for her last two classes, but because she "failed" this class, had to wait out 5 weeks and will come back to another class, they are charging her extra. Wouldn't that be considered fraud since she already paid for them?

We still keep in touch via txt and phone, she is a nice person and we as a class, think she doesn't deserve this and it was blown way out of proportion.

Editorial Team / Admin · Feb 2, 2019

1 hour ago, CariLynn said:
Your right, I wasn't there as we all were tasked to our assigned nurses. But talking to her, she is the last person who would ever show any disrespect. We talked about it as she was part of our cohort, and now know, it wasn't the pt that took it wrong, but the nurse who over heard her, who went running to her supervisor, who lords over the place.
Again, you are not getting a first hand view of the situation. It doesn't matter who was offended- the fact is that she said something that could be taken poorly and didn't consider the consequences.
We have shown up their nurses a few times, caught things that their "experienced" nurses should of but did not, and take care of the tasks they put off till the very last, such as stage 3 - 4 pressure sores. Never a thank you or way to go to any of us, just an eye roll or snort from their supervisor. So of course, we wonder if this was the excuse she needed to show us that she still ruled the roost so to speak there.
Sorry, but this is just a poor attitude right here. You are not yet a nurse, you have not yet walked in the shoes of a nurse who is working day in and day out. You simply don't know what you don't know. Especially the quotes around experienced. Did you ever ask the nurses' rationale for why they did things in the order they did them? They very well may have a valid reason. Also, nurses are still human- they will make mistakes from time to time, and the goal should not be for anyone to be "shown up".
The school itself is being extremely hard on her, both emotionally and financially. She paid for her last two classes, but because she "failed" this class, had to wait out 5 weeks and will come back to another class, they are charging her extra. Wouldn't that be considered fraud since she already paid for them?
If the school has policies in a student handbook and she agreed to that handbook/policies by becoming a student, then the school is well within their rights to assess fees per their policies. Many schools do charge to be considered even if not taking classes. It keeps the student in the records and doesn't require them to reapply for admission.
We still keep in touch via txt and phone, she is a nice person and we as a class, think she doesn't deserve this and it was blown way out of proportion.
Again, you weren't there to witness first hand. You have no frame of reference to determine if it was blown out of proportion or not. The lesson that needs to be learned is that you need to be careful with what is said and how it is said.

Responses in bold in the quoted portion.

Ruby Vee, BSN · Feb 2, 2019

3 hours ago, CariLynn said:
Your right, I wasn't there as we all were tasked to our assigned nurses. But talking to her, she is the last person who would ever show any disrespect. We talked about it as she was part of our cohort, and now know, it wasn't the pt that took it wrong, but the nurse who over heard her, who went running to her supervisor, who lords over the place.
We have shown up their nurses a few times, caught things that their "experienced" nurses should of but did not, and take care of the tasks they put off till the very last, such as stage 3 - 4 pressure sores. Never a thank you or way to go to any of us, just an eye roll or snort from their supervisor. So of course, we wonder if this was the excuse she needed to show us that she still ruled the roost so to speak there.
The school itself is being extremely hard on her, both emotionally and financially. She paid for her last two classes, but because she "failed" this class, had to wait out 5 weeks and will come back to another class, they are charging her extra. Wouldn't that be considered fraud since she already paid for them?
We still keep in touch via txt and phone, she is a nice person and we as a class, think she doesn't deserve this and it was blown way out of proportion.

What a nasty attitude! Yours, not the experienced nurses'. The nurse "went running to her supervisor" who "lords over the place"? Given the level of your disrespect, I am not certain that you would recognize disrespect in someone else.

A student who honestly believes that "we have shown up their nurses" and "Caught things that their (quote) experienced (end quote) nurses should of but did not" reveals not only poor written communication skills but again, a nasty attitude. "Never a thank you or way to go to any of us, only a snort or an eye roll from the supervisor" would lead me to believe that the experienced staff already knew about your "new discovery" and we're doing what could be done about it.

In short, you weren't there when it happened. You don't know what really happened. But you have made up your mind that your classmate wasn't really to blame anyway, and you have a horrible attitude about the nurses who are nice enough to let you work with them. Whether or not your classmate deserved what happened to her, YOU are revealing an attitude that is likely to reflect poorly on your cohort and may have indeed led to unjustly harsh treatment of your classmate.

Way to go.

JKL33 · Feb 2, 2019

Honestly I'm not in favor of our society's trend toward making sure that pain is exacted upon everyone who makes a mistake such as the one we are discussing.

Report this, report that. Write it up. Throw a fit. Make sure people lose their jobs. Make sure they are appropriately humiliated. Exaggerate and conflate in order to make them seem like a criminal. Declare all mistake-makers degenerates who deserve to pay.

I find it fairly pathologic given that we are all human beings and all DO make mistakes, fail to consider another's perspective sometimes, and the like. So then it's just a matter of how vindictive the person (minimally) affected by our gaffe is. Well, vindictiveness spreads. You don't learn to care about others and extend grace by being smacked down. And if you're the one always howling, what is it that you yourself deserve when your time comes?

We will regret this.

Besides, it's interesting when nurses and aspiring nurses receive this treatment but are expected to learn to treat others with principles of acceptance using a holistic, therapeutic, humanity-affirming approach. What a ginormous double-standard!

There is a lot of ground between "letting it slide" and "imposing out-of-proportion punishment." I think there are several assignments that might have helped this student see the error, for example.

JKL33 · Feb 2, 2019

And, FTR, I do think the OP has some issues that need examining, as far as how this is being portrayed and looked at.

TheAngryMan · Feb 9, 2019

Probably an unpopular opinion as I haven't even started nursing school, but I think i have a different perspective. I worked as aerospace engineer building government spacecraft for 6 years.

I once saw an executive berate a 17 year old intern for braking security rules at our facility( jumping the security gate). This is a big no-no as we had armed guards with orders to shoot potential security threats.

When the program liaison, an Army Colonel( our customer) walked by and saw this he very calmly said "If I berated every young soldier for a potentially deadly mistake, I wouldn't have an army". He smiled and walked away. The executive's color drained from his face. He just acted a fool in front of the person who was buying his weapon system.

My point? Nobody benefits from an environment of fear. Not in the military, not in the civilian defense sector and I hope, not in hospitals.

If someone does something wrong, let them know...allow them to correct their actions.

TriciaJ, RN · Feb 9, 2019

On the surface, it does sound as though the facility and the school overreacted. Self-righteous huffing and puffing are the current norm. However, none of us was there so we really don't know what went on.

OP, your takeaway from this is what others have already said. Be very careful what kind of jokes you make and don't make any unless you absolutely know your audience. And here's another takeaway that I personally learned the hard way: don't be in a big rush to champion someone else's cause. Your wonderful classmate may be guiltier than you think. Maybe not, but you don't know. You're only getting her version of events.

From now on, just keep your head down and do your work. Try not to form opinions of the work habits of others when you haven't done their job, yet. Doing your clinical alongside them isn't the same as walking in their shoes. There have been many students and new grads on this site who were sure their negative feedback was because others were jealous of their youth, good looks, future plans, etc.

I do hope your classmate can dust herself off and forge ahead.