I've read a few threads on this and honestly I am shocked. I was unaware that students had to practice anything on each other that was invasive or required them to wear any clothing besides scrubs or other professional attire. This concept did not exist for me until I read threads in which people spoke about these practices.
I do not think it is right for students to have to wear clothing that exposes them, even if it is "just" shorts/bathing suit/bra/sports bra/tank top. Nor do I think it is right for students to have to be examined or touched in any way by another student. If we're going to make it about why I personally don't like it, it is because I don't wear shorts other than when I swim, they are usually knee-length, and I don't swim very often (last time was 2-3 years ago). I don't like to expose my legs for various reasons and I don't want to have to purchase clothing to show off a body part that I don't ever show off, hence why I don't own that type of clothing.
In previous posts there were people to said it wasn't a big deal, and others who think students should have to because their predecessors had to (and they had to do much more to each other than just bathing- such as catheter insertion, breast/lady partsl exams, anal swabbing, etc.), and yet others say it is so that students can learn what it is like to be a patient. Many of these people are saying that those who take issue with it aren't cut out for nursing. This makes no sense to me.
Other than helping out your classmates by providing a body so they can practice and do their exam on, what benefit does this give you? You will make a friend in class who may or may not help you later? So the benefit here is teamwork? I find it highly unlikely that I will be working with the classmate after I graduate and I don't feel that it is my duty to let someone invade my personal space just because the school we are at doesn't use mannequins and real patients. A student is not the same thing as a licensed professional and I don't want inexperienced people touching me or using my body to practice things like injections or catheters or even bathing. Once they are licensed then I know I can trust that they are being professional and held responsible, until then they are no different than someone in my A&P class going for a biology degree.
None of this means I will have a problem with other people's bodies or caring for them. My own personal level of comfort for MY body does not mean I won't be able to do my job and do what I need to when caring for another person. My own body being exposed is not something that will help me when I am bathing a patient because I will never be bathed by a patient and I will never be unclothed in front of a patient.
It seems that people who went to school years ago had to do more to each other than the schools today and if you respond to this I would love to hear what years you went to school (your age is not important) and what your experience and opinions are.
P.S. This is not about a male/female thing, as I think either gender would bother me just as much.
Ironically I just entered this portion of nursing school. I have to admit that there are so many positive rewards to practicing on another student.
First, you can only watch so many videos that instruct a bed bath ect, but I have to admit that practicing on a live individual allows you to gain a comfort with the real life skill. It helps to build confidence in your practice. You are going to be performing these skills for a living and you do not want your first bed bath to be on a live patient.
Second, practicing on other students before the big exam in front of your instructor will help. Students can let you know if you are performing a skill incorrectly , which will help you to perfect the skill before observation by your instructor in the clinical setting. There is so much pressure with your instructor watching for errors, that having given your partner two or three bed baths creates a sense of comfort in your abilities!
Nursing is such a stressful profession with remembering the steps to each skill, but the more you practice the more comfortable you are. The reason that manikins are not used is because they do not present a student with a real life setting. Our school gave us the option with bed baths to wear what we felt most comfortable in. We did not have to perform perineal care or other more invasive care, but believe me using a real life arm helped you get a feel for how to hold a patient and ask for help in particular skills.
If the first time that you waked into a nursing home to give a bed bath, was also the first time that you had performed it on a live body, trust me you are bound to mess up. Patients will feel so much more comfortable in a nursing student that is confident and well practiced, than they would if you seem nervous.
I know that in my CNA training the first bed bath that i gave was on a patient, and I was so nervous I forgot to make sure that I communicated with the patient. The other day in lab when I got to give a bed bath to my partner, I felt so much more confident than she had because I had practiced so frequently on live patients.
Nursing is all about practice and you cannot let insecurities interfere with your practice. Believe me you are not the first person in the world that felt uncomfortable with this practice, and I even did at first, but it will definitely add a sense of confidence to your practice!
Good luck and do not let other tell you what you are cut out for. If nursing is your passion then I say go for it! Just know that live partner practice will and does help with the profession!
Specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty.
I apologize for my snarky tone, everybody. It's just that I picture a pre-nursing student, who might be reading this and re-thinking their dream because they have psoriasis or vitiligo or a birthmark that really bothers them. No offense intended.
We didn't do anything invasive and I don't think most schools allow that now due to liability issues. A bed bath isn't a biggie and you do learn a lot. It's not as easy as some may think. Often they are done clothed and dry but others do them in shorts and t-shirts while wet. The latter is more educational. We also assessed one another minus the genitals and breasts. It was a good teaching tool.
Sorry lol....just laughing as i imagine a couple of our doctors performing some procedures on each other in the name of education..lol....honestly, no other profession needs to do 'their thing' on fellow colleagues before they can practice. Bathing a dressed mate will not prepare anyone for the real thing. Once the procedure is taught thats it. The first time and the 2nd and possibly third are all going to be odd experiences to say the least because 'washing' a fully clothed friend does not compare----its pretendies. If you cant percieve what its like to lift a heavy limp arm, or part someones legs and cleanse between each fold or retract a foreskin then nursing is not for you. If you believe a pretendy one off lesson in a lab has prepared you then you're in for a shock, maybe even bigger as you have a preconcieved idea of what it should go like lol. Nursing, like other professions requires a head full of knowledge, a heart full of love and compassion (ok, so other professions may not need this quality) and then it's all up to hands on experience.
I'm a first year nursing student and we do skills lab with other students...but anything requiring us to bath or touch private areas is strictly done on the Sim patients. (aka...dummies). I looked into several nursing programs before I started and NONE of them required students to do anything to each other that crossed boundaries. We do practice injections on each other...but even for that the college had us sign consent forms.
Man there were a few fellow females I would have loved to bath!
And some I would have dropped out over if I had to see them in anything but street clothes!
Seriously, and you all can it take how ever you want. If some of these claims are true, and some I can see a benefit to (IV, injections, feedings). Enemas, pretty much naked bed baths, vag exams, (depending on the level of nursing, M.W. NP). ah no.
These schools have not been challenged legally.... yet. I've been in the medical field long enough that if I was told "suzy student" was going to give me an enema, well that would be a no go at this station. And if I was "threatened" as nursing school higher ups like to do to most unsuspecting young students with expulsion. I'd let my attorney give them an enema.
You are dealing with basically kids as the majority of nursing programs. They are scared, nervous, and highly susceptible to the pressure some instructors like to insert (no pun intended!) on them.
You learn the mechanics in school and then practice them at the teaching facility (hospital) And if a real patient can refuse a procedure from a nursing student then why can't a student refuse something they are being told they have to do in the classroom setting?
In medic school we did not intubate each other, defibrillate each other, preform chest decompression on each other, surgical crics on each other. You get the idea. I learned the mechanics of each procedure, practiced in a dog lab, and cadaver lab, showed proficiency to the M.D. teaching me and the other students. And was deemed proficient in my skills to do it in the field. I've done the above numerous times in the field. Never had to practice on a fellow student before hand.
Elkpark - NOPE!!. I dont know a single nurse that actually practiced on their classmates (either my classmate/friends/coworkers)and we all had no problem at all learning how to do it when we reached the real world. Hello!!?? It is not rocket science! Read about it, lecture on it, watch a short film and you pretty much have all the theory you need on the subject. When we started clinicals we watched the CNAs a couple times(and helped them) and we were pros. The idea that you have to practice on your classmates is part of the reason you get problems like "old school" instructors putting students in awkward situations. I GUARANTEE that if our instructors had asked us to bath each other we would have told them to take a hike!!
I agree with you, I had to do this in nursing school and I was uncomfortable with it. I wish I had said something to my instructor at the time. These days most ppl are comfortable with pretty much anything, personal space isn't much of an issue anymore. Unless someone speaks up, the instructors won't think anything of it.
This is a very interesting thread with compelling posts being made on both sides of the issue.
I have to admit that the OP makes an interesting point that I had not considered. When I was a clinical instructor, only one student expressed concerns about modesty during the bed bath return demonstration. It turns out he'd misunderstood and thought he had to be completely exposed to one of his classmates during the procedure. When he realized he did not have to be nude, he was fine with it. But, reading the OP's post makes me aware that not everyone has the same level of comfort. As an instructor, I would try to be careful to accommodate a reasonable request, though it would have to be within school policy and make sure that it was fair to everyone. I mean, why should one person be excused from being the "patient" in a return demonstration while the other students have to participate?
I will also admit that, while I am a very patient and try to accommodate students whenever possible, I got pretty irritated with one student who was "afraid" to let another student give her an injection of saline. What irked me was that this student had multiple tats and piercings, many in places that must have been VERY painful to pierce or tattoo. Also, she had no qualms about giving an injection to another student but she just didn't want to be on the receiving end.
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As a nurse and as an instructor, you must know that the difference is "consent." If someone wants to volunteer, so be it. I have no doubt that there will be plenty of students willing to volunteer more than once. But, if not, then the college needs to plunk down a few bucks on a SIM. The reason someone gives for not wanting to participate is irrelevant- and to inquire can be very close to the legal line.
As a nurse, I have nothing to stand on- I'm not even in my first class yet; but as a 40 year old professional woman who has been a community college teacher for 17 years, let me speak as an instructor. Learning objectives can be met in many ways. Why not have both options? Why not have a SIM in the classroom, and allow students to practice on each other if they choose.
I have a second idea, let's not give them grief for opting to do one over the other. This thread reminds me a bit of old school hazing.
Specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty.
My own feeling is that schools will continue to curtail or eliminate practicing on students. The benefits of practicing a simple procedure once on a classmate just aren't going to be enough to mitigate the downsides.
ppfd, I know you intended your comment "man there were a few females I'd love to bathe" as funny, but that is exactly the issue. Because they are your classmates maybe it's OK to say that, but if they were your patients it wouldn't be. Now that there are many more male nursing students, issues of sexuality have obviously crept into the discussion.
I noticed that a couple of people suggested that classmates who don't want to participate "need counseling" and are "insecure" and have trust issues. Whether or not that is true, nursing school isn't the place to address issues like that. If you think the bonding with your classmates and becoming comfortable with each other is a good idea, there are plenty of off-campus activiities you can plan that don't have the added stress of success or failure in nursing school.
I agree that the whole classmate bathing thing was a bit humiliating(and I, too, especially hated the tooth brushing) but, looking back, I think it was a good thing. I, personally, have always been a bit shy and I really think it helped to prepare me for the real world. We actually had a fire drill when I was on the receiving end of my "bath" and I actually had to leave the building in nothing but my bra and shorts and a sheet in November in Ohio:rotfl:, so consider yourself lucky if you got to stay warm and dry during yours. Just know that I was mortified when I found out we would have to actually bathe each other, but, this too shall pass. As for a classmate placing a catheter or doing an anal swab, never gonna happen!
UMassNursingStudent
4 Posts
Browhairedgal-
Ironically I just entered this portion of nursing school. I have to admit that there are so many positive rewards to practicing on another student.
First, you can only watch so many videos that instruct a bed bath ect, but I have to admit that practicing on a live individual allows you to gain a comfort with the real life skill. It helps to build confidence in your practice. You are going to be performing these skills for a living and you do not want your first bed bath to be on a live patient.
Second, practicing on other students before the big exam in front of your instructor will help. Students can let you know if you are performing a skill incorrectly , which will help you to perfect the skill before observation by your instructor in the clinical setting. There is so much pressure with your instructor watching for errors, that having given your partner two or three bed baths creates a sense of comfort in your abilities!
Nursing is such a stressful profession with remembering the steps to each skill, but the more you practice the more comfortable you are. The reason that manikins are not used is because they do not present a student with a real life setting. Our school gave us the option with bed baths to wear what we felt most comfortable in. We did not have to perform perineal care or other more invasive care, but believe me using a real life arm helped you get a feel for how to hold a patient and ask for help in particular skills.
If the first time that you waked into a nursing home to give a bed bath, was also the first time that you had performed it on a live body, trust me you are bound to mess up. Patients will feel so much more comfortable in a nursing student that is confident and well practiced, than they would if you seem nervous.
I know that in my CNA training the first bed bath that i gave was on a patient, and I was so nervous I forgot to make sure that I communicated with the patient. The other day in lab when I got to give a bed bath to my partner, I felt so much more confident than she had because I had practiced so frequently on live patients.
Nursing is all about practice and you cannot let insecurities interfere with your practice. Believe me you are not the first person in the world that felt uncomfortable with this practice, and I even did at first, but it will definitely add a sense of confidence to your practice!
Good luck and do not let other tell you what you are cut out for. If nursing is your passion then I say go for it! Just know that live partner practice will and does help with the profession!
Good Luck!