I've read a few threads on this and honestly I am shocked. I was unaware that students had to practice anything on each other that was invasive or required them to wear any clothing besides scrubs or other professional attire. This concept did not exist for me until I read threads in which people spoke about these practices.
I do not think it is right for students to have to wear clothing that exposes them, even if it is "just" shorts/bathing suit/bra/sports bra/tank top. Nor do I think it is right for students to have to be examined or touched in any way by another student. If we're going to make it about why I personally don't like it, it is because I don't wear shorts other than when I swim, they are usually knee-length, and I don't swim very often (last time was 2-3 years ago). I don't like to expose my legs for various reasons and I don't want to have to purchase clothing to show off a body part that I don't ever show off, hence why I don't own that type of clothing.
In previous posts there were people to said it wasn't a big deal, and others who think students should have to because their predecessors had to (and they had to do much more to each other than just bathing- such as catheter insertion, breast/lady partsl exams, anal swabbing, etc.), and yet others say it is so that students can learn what it is like to be a patient. Many of these people are saying that those who take issue with it aren't cut out for nursing. This makes no sense to me.
Other than helping out your classmates by providing a body so they can practice and do their exam on, what benefit does this give you? You will make a friend in class who may or may not help you later? So the benefit here is teamwork? I find it highly unlikely that I will be working with the classmate after I graduate and I don't feel that it is my duty to let someone invade my personal space just because the school we are at doesn't use mannequins and real patients. A student is not the same thing as a licensed professional and I don't want inexperienced people touching me or using my body to practice things like injections or catheters or even bathing. Once they are licensed then I know I can trust that they are being professional and held responsible, until then they are no different than someone in my A&P class going for a biology degree.
None of this means I will have a problem with other people's bodies or caring for them. My own personal level of comfort for MY body does not mean I won't be able to do my job and do what I need to when caring for another person. My own body being exposed is not something that will help me when I am bathing a patient because I will never be bathed by a patient and I will never be unclothed in front of a patient.
It seems that people who went to school years ago had to do more to each other than the schools today and if you respond to this I would love to hear what years you went to school (your age is not important) and what your experience and opinions are.
P.S. This is not about a male/female thing, as I think either gender would bother me just as much.
The common idea appears to be that one learns how a patient would feel. Unless the 'educational' test bath is being done in its entirety ie. naked, peri wash etc...then the argument is invalid. Any one with half a brain realises that this is a task to be done with the utmost care and dignity. The procedure itself does not require any disrobing-just mere acting out the scenario. Ive not met a nurse that has had to do anything like this, and ive worked with hundreds. Do we give each other a suppository so we can empathise better...NOOOOOOO. If a pt is so ill as to require a bedbath then undoutably this will be the least of their concerns.
If you cannot handle experiencing what your poor, vunerable patient has to go through then maybe you either need to get over your vanity, or find a new line of work. We are patient advocates and if it is what is right for them, then it should be okay with us too for gosh sakes!
Never say never. That patient you bathe tomorrow may be the nurse/doctor/dentist/dental hygienist/chiropractor/physical therapist/respiratory therapist/radiologist or xray tech/phlebotomist/dietician, minister/admission clerk/insurance clerk/medical records clerk, cna, etc, etc, etc standing next to or over you or someone you know and care about if and when you are seeking medical care somewhere, sometime. Not to mention any one else you ever come in contact in any area of life. Hey, one of our local TV weathermen is attending nursing school now and is one of our church members. Never say never.
Yes, being bathed by a fellow student made us all squirm. But it taught us much more about bathing and communicating with a living human being than the new 6 million dollar robot patient they now bathe at the local nursing school ever will. And as with any patient we would bathe can opt to do, we did our own perineal care during the bath. Having our teeth brushed was hard for the "patient" and the "nurse". In 30 years of nursing I have seen other nurses bathe patients as if they were washing a turkey for Christmas dinner. I wonder, does anyone ever do back massage anymore????? I also remember and still encounter cases where female patients and their husbands, boyfriends, etc did/do not allow a male student nurse or male nurse to take care of their "woman" and the other students/nurses become incensed at that. I have been in nursing long enough to witness patients refuse care from black or foreign medical personnel. Sometimes patients refuse to receive care from student nurses of any kind. However, some of those students incensed with those scenarios find nothing wrong with refusing "care" from their fellow students in class.
Student nurses are NOT professionals before they are licensed and having a license doesn't make the nurse a professional, either. Education, experience and dedication, trial, error and enlightenment along with a healthy dose of blood, sweat and tears make the nurse a professional. Sufficient experience in the nursing lab/clinicals passed BEFORE the student nurses are let loose on actual patients makes the student more comfortable as well as the patient and anyone associated with the patient who is watching the care being given. Lawsuits abound. Contact your state board of nursing to read the nurse practice acts covering student nurses and their instructors that is separate from the state's general nurse practice acts.
One of the greatest errors a nurse supervising other nurses/cnas is to expect them to do something the supervisor is not willing to do, not experienced to do or unable to explain how to do. Letting patients know you've been there and done that and this is how you/patients got through it goes a long way.
I learned to squirm and bear it so my patients don't have to. And as procedures, treatments, laws change, I am still squirming and learning. Our hospital requires us to go through nursing competency class yearly and we still do procedures on each other in that class. We go through TB certification every few years and that requires demonstrating procedures on each other. If any students have the option of not performing procedures on each other, that's OK, too--for them. If nursing students perceive any procedures they have to do on each other as frightening, unprofessional, embarassing, unnecessary--think how the patient feels about getting those same procedures by a complete stranger while they are in pain, helpless, alone, whatever. Remember, we're the ones coming at the patient with sharp, shiny objects, plastic tubes of various lengths and diameters, pills, potions, fluids, masks, diapers, etc. Remember, sometimes patients ask the nurse "Have your done this before? How many times have you done this? Are you good at this?"
This is a very interesting thread with compelling posts being made on both sides of the issue.
I have to admit that the OP makes an interesting point that I had not considered. When I was a clinical instructor, only one student expressed concerns about modesty during the bed bath return demonstration. It turns out he'd misunderstood and thought he had to be completely exposed to one of his classmates during the procedure. When he realized he did not have to be nude, he was fine with it. But, reading the OP's post makes me aware that not everyone has the same level of comfort. As an instructor, I would try to be careful to accommodate a reasonable request, though it would have to be within school policy and make sure that it was fair to everyone. I mean, why should one person be excused from being the "patient" in a return demonstration while the other students have to participate?
I will also admit that, while I am a very patient and try to accommodate students whenever possible, I got pretty irritated with one student who was "afraid" to let another student give her an injection of saline. What irked me was that this student had multiple tats and piercings, many in places that must have been VERY painful to pierce or tattoo. Also, she had no qualms about giving an injection to another student but she just didn't want to be on the receiving end.
Specializes in Corrections,Med/Surg, Infectious Disease.
Are you seriously kidding me? I'm sorry but doing peri care, catheters and other private invasive procedures is going too far. Give me a break, having a classmate perform pericare on another student doesn't make them know how to realize what your patient is going through. If you as a student can't realize that by lecture or clinicals then you'll never learn it. You don't need to practice peri care on one another to know how to be professional about it. Give me a break!!! If you lecture about it and lecture about it and learn more of it in clinicals you should be fine. Professionalism doesn't mean you have to experience it yourself as long as you have common decency & sense and morals you should be fine with performing peri care on a pt.
I kind of understand practicing bed baths in lab to get an idea for those who haven't a clue, as long as it's over clothes and no touching. We are supposed to be in a professional environment and if you are exposed in any way that changes the comfort zone. When I was in that learning phase we did do physical assessments in sports bras and sweat pants and alot of people objected but got over it. You could tell we all felt uncomfortable though. Inexperience isn't the issue it's that we are all peers and patients in a hospital expect to be examined and to have professionals (including professional students) touching them, and if they don't want a student they don't have too!
How do you expect to learn to start an IV then? On a mannequin? My program does require that we practice on one another and as long as the other student is performing the procedure properly, I'm all for it. Yes, it will hurt, yes there will be mistakes and yes, I may even get ticked off. That said, I would much rather start an IV under such controlled circumstances than on a real patient. If I messed up on a real client, I would not only feel terrible for that person, but my confidence would be diminished that much more and who knows how I might react to that the next time.
col3
19 Posts
The common idea appears to be that one learns how a patient would feel. Unless the 'educational' test bath is being done in its entirety ie. naked, peri wash etc...then the argument is invalid. Any one with half a brain realises that this is a task to be done with the utmost care and dignity. The procedure itself does not require any disrobing-just mere acting out the scenario. Ive not met a nurse that has had to do anything like this, and ive worked with hundreds. Do we give each other a suppository so we can empathise better...NOOOOOOO. If a pt is so ill as to require a bedbath then undoutably this will be the least of their concerns.