Attention: Philippines nurses - there is no nursing shortage in America

[oneproudigorot]

I came across a thread in this forum. A lot of those forumers, mostly american nurses, posted that there is really no nursing shortage in America. I think that's really very disturbing considering that I gave up a very good career just to take up nursing.

I am at a dilemma, should I push through with my american dream. I am done with my CGFNS, IELTS and NCLEX but everything crumbled since i read those posts.

How ironic that we are made to believe that america needs nurses when there are a lot of inactive american nurses who chose not to practice. What if the US gov't does something to make those nurses go back on the floor then where will we be?

[NurseCubanitaRN2b, BSN, RN]

I look over on the individual state boards on allnurses. I see many newly licensed RNs in your own state complaining that they can not get a nursing position. If there are many open positions why are they not finding these positions. I find similar posts in other states. I also here this form newly licensed nurses in my area.

I personally know several graduate nurses who can't find a job in my area. In the hospitals alone they have several new grad positions that open up and so many applicants. Of course the ones who get the positions for new grads already work there as LVN's or CNA's. Then what's left over goes to outside applicants. But there's tons of applicants that are turned away for new grad positions. They have gone to the nursing homes to try to find a job as a nurse. Some of them successfully found a job in the nursing, and some of them had to find two jobs (part time) just to make a full time salary. Unfortunately I know two who aren't able to locate a job in our area and are having to travel 50 miles north or south. Their salary is either higher or lower than what they would be making here. With gas prices the way they are they either make about the same as they would have here, or they're making lower. IMO, there isn't a shortage of nurses as one would think in general. But there is a shortage of new grad positions for our graduates here. There is frustration for our RN graduates here, as there is frustration for the ones in the Philippines. Good Luck to all!

[Ginger's Mom, MSN, RN]

Critter lover, could you state where you live? I did a search in the Bay area, I found one Federal Medical Center ( the VA) and only saw 4 nursing opportunities and they all required experience and US citizenship. I would like to point current newly licensed nurses to your area, it sounds like you need immediate help.

How is your hospital coping with retrogression, or have they found a loop hole to keep importing foreign nurses?

I do know that foreign nurses can't be paid lower wages but thank you for pointing that out. I think foreign nurses need to know the reality of the US nursing situation and not be given false hope. I just don't see the need for importing nurses when our graduate nurses are unemployed.

If and when retrogression is lifted the Phillipine nurse will not be the only nurse trying to get into the US. English nurses, Indian, Korean, and other countries all have nurses who have similar training and desire to move to the US.

[CritterLover, BSN, RN]

critter lover, could you state where you live? i did a search in the bay area, i found one federal medical center ( the va) and only saw 4 nursing opportunities and they all required experience and us citizenship. i would like to point current newly licensed nurses to your area, it sounds like you need immediate help.

how is your hospital coping with retrogression, or have they found a loop hole to keep importing foreign nurses?

i do know that foreign nurses can't be paid lower wages but thank you for pointing that out. i think foreign nurses need to know the reality of the us nursing situation and not be given false hope. i just don't see the need for importing nurses when our graduate nurses are unemployed.

if and when retrogression is lifted the phillipine nurse will not be the only nurse trying to get into the us. english nurses, indian, korean, and other countries all have nurses who have similar training and desire to move to the us.

pm sent, let me know if i can help!

[GetaJob]

Sorry, but there is a retrogression in place and those that are considering working in the US are looking at about a five year wait for a chance at a green card to be able to work here.

And suspect that your parents trained about 20 years ago plus; and the training was significantly different than it is now.

It is not a point of someone wishing to work in the US, but they need to be able to get a legal visa to work here, and right now; it is just not going to happen.

There are no jobs available in the Philippines at present, so how can one even have experience as an RN? No work experience is going to make it quite difficult for one to get a job here. We are seeing contracts cancelled because the skill set was not up to where it should have been, and with five years and no work in the nursing field, then going to be quite difficult to get thru the immigration process.

Suggest that you take the time to do some reading here to see what is actually going on. There are also quite a few American nurses that have gone back to working at the bedside that were stay at home moms, as well as others picking up second and third jobs since the economy has gotten so bad in many areas. It costs over $10,000 for each and every foreign nurse that is brought to the US to work; with things the way that they are right now, very few employers are willing to start the process and wait the five years plus. Only those agencies that are hoping that the nurse signs with them and then backs out of their contract so that they can get paid the cancellation fee are doing anything.

There are close to a million students enrolled in nursing schools right now in the Philippines, and 15 to 18 students to patient, so the skills that one can possibly do are quite limited. Suggest that you speak to your parents about what things were like when they went to school and each patient had only one student nurse assigned to them at a time.

In my previous post, i didn't mean to convey that it was easy to come to America to be a nurse. In fact i didn't state anything about the topic of immigration. I understand for a fact that it is quite difficult to come to migrate to the US no matter where you are. Currently my parents are sending 5 relatives to nursing school in the Philippines and are trying to help another get a working visa. The process in getting at least a working visa is very difficult, and will currently will take many years, but to say that it's not going to happen is just a statement of discouragement than fact; its happening everyday.

Sorry if my first post was unclear, but it wasn't referring to immigration at all, but to the original topic of the shortage of nurses. Again, i cannot speak for all of America and it is not likely that anyone could, but I know for fact that in the Los Angeles area, there is not doubt a plethora of openings. I would obviously think there would be more opportunities for nurses in areas that are more populated.

To the original inquiry, I'm sure you already know that immigration is a difficult process but if you for sure know that nursing is what you want to do with your life, then don't let anyone convince you that you can't do it.

[suzanne4, RN]

Working visas for nurses just do not exist, there are very specific requirements that are needed to be met; the US government is actually reviewing all that have been issued since it turns out that only about 11% of all of the H1-B visas actually went to the specialists as they were designed to be used for.

The VA facilities actually require US citizenship now, in the past it was only a green card; but they have new rules in place as well.

Travel nurses are not considered full-time employees and are actually paid from a separate account as contract workers. The hospitals also get tax breaks as well on these. And the nurses all come with experience and can jump right in and begin to work in a day or two, not requiring the orientation that the employee needs. So there are views from both sides on this as well.

[Daly City RN]

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It is very expensive for any hospital to hire a new-grad RN. This is probably the main reason why hospitals prefer to hire experienced RN's and understandably so. You have to train a new-grad at a considerable cost and there is no guarantee that that new RN will stay after he/she gets her necessary hospital experience.

I know this is very frustrating for any new-grad RN who are in this situation. I experienced the same problem when I was a newly minted California RN, but in the end I was hired and acquired the valuable acute care experience that no one can take away from me. Just be patient, keep on trying, make yourself more marketable by attending nursing-related classes, and don't forget to pray.

Good luck to all of you.

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[suzanne4, RN]

Yes, there is a nursing shortage in some areas, but not all. And the economy is getting bad in the US, so it is very hard for any hospital administration to spend over $10,000 to import a foreign nurse at this time when the money can be spent on training an American for the same job.

The other issue is that most facilities want nurses that have actual experience working in the role of the RN, or then the nurse requires a longer orientation on top of everything else. Most nurses coming to the US do not have the two years of experience that most facilities want to see. Even in the Bay Area, new grads have problems getting jobs; if they have at least two years of experience, then there are no issues at all.

So when it is hard for an American to get hired in some areas, it is most definitely not going to mean that a foreign nurse will get hired and then have to wait to get thru the immigration process.

Hospitals are hiring based on what their needs are now, how are they going to know what the specific needs are going to be five years from now? And chances are that administration will change it as it usually does every five years or so, then the facility can also decline to hire any foreign nurses at that time and we have seen that happen many times over as well.

[NotReady4PrimeTime, RN]

i'm not a teamplayer because they all take coffee breaks 2 to 3 times a day--and i don't have time for coffee when i'm checking my patient and the mars; when my patient poops, i have to get help from another coworker, and they would rather enjoy their coffee than deal with poop...thus i'm "not a team player" for forcing them to deal with poop. (when i ask for help in turning patients to clean them up, they reply, "i'll help you when i get back. i'll just get coffee, ok?" when i point out that lying on poop is uncomfortable, they reply, "hey, nobody dies from lying on sh*t. relax!" i wonder how long their patients lie on sh*t while they enjoy their coffee and breakfast and snacks.)

are you suggesting, perhaps, that the labor laws previous generations of american workers have fought long and hard to see enacted should be ignored? the law in most states is that people are entitled to a certain number of minutes of break time each shift they work, based on the number of hours in the shift. when i take my breaks, i do so after having ensured that my patients will need nothing routine while i'm gone... they're clean, dry, had meds for pain if needed, tube feeds and iv fluids topped up. i expect the same from my break buddy. we know when our break times are and plan our interventions accordingly. breaks fall under the heading of "working conditions".

want to hear one proof of a u.s. nursing shortage?...in our unit alone we employ several "traveling" rn's from various parts of the u.s. working on a temporary basis. our nursing department can't find enough experienced rn's to staff our hospital. therefore we employ "traveling" nurses. these "traveling" rn's are expensive, they get good pay as well as a housing allowance of up to $3,000/month, in cash. i think they are worth the price of their salaries. they make work that much easier for the permanent nursing staff of the hospital. and all of these "traveling" rn's have years of valuable experience, they adapt easily, they are independent and are reliable.

we need more nurses in america!

imagine if all that money that is being spent on transients was poured into making working conditions safer and more reasonable. how many of those same nurses who aren't working as nurses would find their way back to the floor?

[Ginger's Mom, MSN, RN]

I think there are several issues going on.

First, new RNs ( despite where they went to school, international or domestic) without experience are finding very difficult to find their first job. Most hospitals have newly licensed nurse programs which are very competitive. This makes it hard for dosmestically trained new RN to get there first position and next to impossible for internationally trained new nurses. Nursing education alone is not enough to make an employable new RN, the new nurse needs future training at the employer's expense.

Second, the US policy towards immigration has shifted to close our boarders policy. This has nothing to do with the nurses trying to come in legally to the US, but a side effect of the massive amount of illegal immigrants who are in the USA. You may ask how are illegal immigrants effecting legal immigrants. Illegal immigrants do not pay taxes, they don't have health insurance this drains the US economy and more importantly the budgets of hospitals that treat the illegal immigrants, Unfortunately the people who are trying to do the right thing by processing their paperwork and waiting their turn and being hurt.

Third, as Suzanne has mentioned there has never been unlimited immigration, it may have seen so, but the funds that supported this effort have gone away.

[nurse15dc]

I think foreign nurses need to know the reality of the US nursing situation and not be given false hope. I just don't see the need for importing nurses when our graduate nurses are unemployed.

If and when retrogression is lifted the Phillipine nurse will not be the only nurse trying to get into the US. English nurses, Indian, Korean, and other countries all have nurses who have similar training and desire to move to the US.

I have to agree. Dreaming is nice but if people aren't able to accept a more realistic picture of what is happening in US medical facilities, they are only hurting themselves.

While I don't claim to have an in-depth understanding of the complexities of funding healthcare, I agree that upcoming changes in medicare (as well a strong general desire to close our borders) will VASTLY curtail immigration of RN's to the US. This thought upsets many, but it is much more helpful to give an honest portrayal of things.

A huge hospital in my area was recently forced to fire 127 "Nurse Techs" due to a shortfall in medicare reimbursement. These "Nurse Techs" were all students in their final semester of a BSN program. Most of those fired had expected to graduate and work as full-time RN's at this hospital.

JMO, but it's upsetting to think some foreign nursing schools continue to reap huge profits by selling an unrealistic or outdated dream.

[Silverdragon102, BSN]

I have to agree. Dreaming is nice but if people aren't able to accept a more realistic picture of what is happening in US medical facilities, they are only hurting themselves.

While I don't claim to have an in-depth understanding of the complexities of funding healthcare, I agree that upcoming changes in medicare (as well a strong general desire to close our borders) will VASTLY curtail immigration of RN's to the US. This thought upsets many, but it is much more helpful to give an honest portrayal of things.

A huge hospital in my area was recently forced to fire 127 "Nurse Techs" due to a shortfall in medicare reimbursement. These "Nurse Techs" were all students in their final semester of a BSN program. Most of those fired had expected to graduate and work as full-time RN's at this hospital.

JMO, but it's upsetting to think some foreign nursing schools continue to reap huge profits by selling an unrealistic or outdated dream.

Sadly it isn't just schools selling the unrealistic dream but agencies as well

[Fiona59]

Sadly it isn't just schools selling the unrealistic dream but agencies as well

... and family pressures from what I read on these threads. People just have to accept that they can't always get what they want. Life has a nasty habit of not being under our direct control. Governments make and change rules all the time, doing what is in their nations best interest.

Oh, and a rested, hydrated nurse who takes their breaks are just as effective (if not better) as those "super nurses" who look down on the break takers. Team membership is about more than who takes breaks and who doesn't. It's about the overall attitude and behaviours of the staff. Failure to take breaks can be due to poor time management skills, a heavy workload (and yes, I've worked shifts where no one has had a break because the unit was slammed), and working short staffed. BUT to state that you don't take breaks because you provide better care than your co-workers is just arrogant.