Attention: Philippines nurses - there is no nursing shortage in America

[oneproudigorot]

I came across a thread in this forum. A lot of those forumers, mostly american nurses, posted that there is really no nursing shortage in America. I think that's really very disturbing considering that I gave up a very good career just to take up nursing.

I am at a dilemma, should I push through with my american dream. I am done with my CGFNS, IELTS and NCLEX but everything crumbled since i read those posts.

How ironic that we are made to believe that america needs nurses when there are a lot of inactive american nurses who chose not to practice. What if the US gov't does something to make those nurses go back on the floor then where will we be?

[oneproudigorot, MSN, RN]

oops...my bad :sofahider

so to the OP...yes you should come to America, but perhaps it is a good idea to learn the fine art of negotiation upon or prior to your arrival if you aren't familiar with negotiation already

I understand that you see us as desperate enough to earn big bucks so we don't negotiate with potential employers but I would like to inform you that we do choose our employers carefully. We choose where we should be working and whom we should be working with.

I got an offer from a nursing facility in NY but I had to inquire from people I know. Many of them gave a negative feedback. I called my cousin who's in Cali and she said, the 26 dollars per hour is too low if I were to work in NY so I had to turn down the offer. I think that's a form of negotiation.

We do background checks on the different facilities through the net and some of our friends who went ahead. Just the same, I can't blame you for how you perceive us. I hope it will change.:)

[Ginger's Mom, MSN, RN]

The American economy is in recession, as the recession tightens there will be more nurses returning to the bedside. Payment for hospitalizations is going down. I can understand the immigration department restricting the importing of nurses from foreign countries. I don't see many opening for newly graduated nurses and many places here in Boston only BSN need apply.

[PMHNP10]

I understand that you see us as desperate enough to earn big bucks so we don't negotiate with potential employers but I would like to inform you that we do choose our employers carefully. We choose where we should be working and whom we should be working with.

I did? I assure you I've never made any such assumptions. I simply asked questions because I have never been outside North America and thought it'd be interesting to learn something about other countries. I think it's a fair assumption that not all countries have a workforce that practices negotiation, but I also acknowledge that my assumption might not be correct.

So what I understand you are saying is that wage negotiation is a common practice in the Philippines?

The post you chose to quote was my attempt to return on-topic (as directed by lawrence01) while tying into my previous post since I think I'm kinda responsible for this thread going OT; and for that I apologize to you. I should have started a new thread.

[Bonjour]

To pinoy_guy,

One of the reasons why I am currently a nursing student is because of nurses like you: dependable, perfectionist (there is nothing wrong with that), reliable, great work ethic, and above all, real concern about your patients.

When I graduate and come across those kind of unprofessional nurses you discussed, I will make sure that I cover my behind i.e., everything are documented. So when a lawsuit comes up, I can defend myself during finger-pointing.

Just keep your nose clean, do what you need to do, be a perfectionist and do not lose your sense of humor.

Keep nurses proud.

[Bonjour]

*moderator's note:

the thread is slightly getting off-topic already. in respect to the thread starter, i think we should go back to the main topic...

please accept my apology for being off-topic. i read your note after posting my last reply.

[GetaJob]

Well, despite whether there is a definite shortage of nurses in the US, one thing is for sure, it is extremely easy to find a job opening for a RN in a hospital. Both my parents are nurses, but particularly my dad has worked at several hospitals in his 12 years as a nurse. Of the times I remember, he was probably unemployed for no more than 2 weeks in between jobs.

I can only speak for California when i say that there is a definite shortage of nurses. Southern CA is a great place to migrate to, if you are a Filipino nurse hoping to come to America (like there aren't a lot of those nowadays ) Here in southern CA hostpials your bound to run into at least one Filipino, if not multiple! (I am Filipino btw, so i dont offend anyone)

In my opinion, native Filipinos are great candidates for nursing, due to the hard work and long hours. You see, being born in America by native Filipino parents, and growing up here in this day in age, I believe that the idea of the American dream has changed within the US. Its not about working hard and making good money, owning a house, picket fence etc. A lot of my young peers see the dream as trying to do the least amount of work and make the highest rate posssible.

Now the problem with this is that shortage of nursing attracts alot of these types of people who are trying to make a high rate with doing less work. This is why there are employees in the hostipal who take their hourly coffee breaks and find "shortcuts" for every aspect of their job.

All things considered, there is a shortage of hard working nurses here in CA, and in respect, as long as there are those people who don't like to work hard for their pay, there will always be a shortage.

Sorry if i got sidetracked, and i hope i answered your question, but im quite fervent about the topic and can talk/type for a long time about it. :typing

[suzanne4, RN]

Sorry, but there is a retrogression in place and those that are considering working in the US are looking at about a five year wait for a chance at a green card to be able to work here.

And suspect that your parents trained about 20 years ago plus; and the training was significantly different than it is now.

It is not a point of someone wishing to work in the US, but they need to be able to get a legal visa to work here, and right now; it is just not going to happen.

There are no jobs available in the Philippines at present, so how can one even have experience as an RN? No work experience is going to make it quite difficult for one to get a job here. We are seeing contracts cancelled because the skill set was not up to where it should have been, and with five years and no work in the nursing field, then going to be quite difficult to get thru the immigration process.

Suggest that you take the time to do some reading here to see what is actually going on. There are also quite a few American nurses that have gone back to working at the bedside that were stay at home moms, as well as others picking up second and third jobs since the economy has gotten so bad in many areas. It costs over $10,000 for each and every foreign nurse that is brought to the US to work; with things the way that they are right now, very few employers are willing to start the process and wait the five years plus. Only those agencies that are hoping that the nurse signs with them and then backs out of their contract so that they can get paid the cancellation fee are doing anything.

There are close to a million students enrolled in nursing schools right now in the Philippines, and 15 to 18 students to patient, so the skills that one can possibly do are quite limited. Suggest that you speak to your parents about what things were like when they went to school and each patient had only one student nurse assigned to them at a time.

[Ginger's Mom, MSN, RN]

Every conference I attend, warn us that Medicare plans to be level funded for the next 20 years despite due to baby boomers enrolling in Medicare.

Since most of the hospitals get the majority of their funding through Medicare and Medcaid, I predict that these nursing vacancies will not appear. Also it is not cost effective to import nurses...if there is a nursing shortage they will be educated in the US for the simple reason is cheaper and won't take away from the hospital's bottom line.

Many of the hospitals in my area that had to resort to importing foreign nurses in the 80's ansd 90's have been closed. I would not count on a US nursing shortage when planning your nursing career.

[Daly City RN]

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In my own small humble way I may be contributing to the U.S. nursing shortage in the near future. Well, sort of. After working in a large medical center here in the San Francisco Bay Area for the last 27.5 years I have decided to hang the towel. Again, sort of.

I will be "retiring" from my regular RN job in less than 2 months time. I won't reveal the name of the medical center where I'm currently working but since this is a government-owned hospital I have been eligible for early retirement for the last two years. For those of you who may have read my previous posts before I may sound a like a broken record to you! (or a CD!)

I have decided to collect my hard earned retirement pension and enjoy life a little bit more. My wife and I will take a few weeks off, perhaps visit relatives in the Philippines or take a cruise. I want to see the Colorado Rocky Mountains, and hike up to the base of Half Dome in Yosemite National Park. Then I will continue to hang around the house for a few more weeks doing a lot of deferred household chores that I have meant to do for a long time.

I plan to go back to the medical center that has been my second home for almost 3 decades to work as a "per diem" RN sometime in the near future. This part-time job will supplement my retirement pension until I get my early retirement Federal Social Security pension at age 62yo.

I also plan to go back to work in a SNF as a part-time nursing supervisor. I tried this type of work 3 years ago on a temporary basis and I found that it was not as bad as I thought it would be. I actually liked the slower pace of work in a SNF as compared the the very, very fast pace and hectic work in an acute care hospital, especially in the medical center where I am currently working.

Having worked as a charge nurse and as well a staff nurse in a very busy acute care hospital, being a nursing supervisor in a Skilled Nursing Facility was a welcome change for me three years ago.

Yes, there is a nursing shortage in the U.S.A. I have asked a few friends about job openings in a few SNF's and there are many jobs for RN's out there. If you have years of U.S. nursing experience, many acute care hospitals will have a job waiting for you. Hundreds of thousands of RN's my generation will soon be retiring and we are not being replaced fast enough by U.S.-educated nurses to ease the nursing shortage.

Want to hear one proof of a U.S. nursing shortage?...In our unit alone we employ several "traveling" RN's from various parts of the U.S. working on a temporary basis. Our nursing department can't find enough experienced RN's to staff our hospital. Therefore we employ "traveling" nurses. These "traveling" RN's are expensive, they get good pay as well as a housing allowance of up to $3,000/month, in cash. I think they are worth the price of their salaries. They make work that much easier for the permanent nursing staff of the hospital. And all of these "traveling" RN's have years of valuable experience, they adapt easily, they are independent and are reliable.

We need more nurses in America!

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[Ginger's Mom, MSN, RN]

Congrads on your retirement Dale City, enjoy your time you have earned it.

I look over on the individual state boards on allnurses. I see many newly licensed RNs in your own state complaining that they can not get a nursing position. If there are many open positions why are they not finding these positions. I find similar posts in other states. I also here this form newly licensed nurses in my area.

Yes, in the next 20 years there will be many retired nurses, but I have also been reading that many programs are being developed to keep nurses active past age 65. Also there are many qualifed students turned away from nursing programs, the goal should be to have them trained and work as RNS. Most bills that have not been passed include funding for these programs.

Travel nurses are cost effective for hospitals. To be a travel nurse you ave to be experience, therefore the hospital does not have to pay thousands of dollar orienting the nurses. The hospital does not have to pay FICA or unemployment insurance, they don't have to provide health insurance, ( my hospital pays 12K alone in this benefit). I see the use of travel nurses as a cost effective way for hospitals to have nurses. I don't agree with this policy but that is the way hospital adminstrators see this.

To work in the VA, my understanding now you must be a US citizen.

My last point, everything I hear and read, states Medicare is going to be level funded the next 20 years. This is not rumor but fact. The plan is cut services to Medicare patients, I am assuming this cut will include nursing services.

[pinay2008, LPN, LVN]

hello everyone, thank you for sharing all your views/insights regarding this topic, it somehow clarified all my hesitations. i'm not giving up my "american dream" not just yet.:)

[CritterLover, BSN, RN]

most american nurses have the impression that immigrant nurses are depressing wages and are more willing to work for less pay because most of them do not know the fact that immigrant nurses being petitioned for immigrant visas are being paid market-rate wages. it would be a federal offense for a hospital to pay an immigrant nurse lower salaries compared to american nurses. both have to receive market-rate wages.

very true -- facilities can't pay foreign nurses less. however, not only do most us nurses not know this, many refuse to believe it.

in addition, many believe that the availability of foreign nurses allow facilities to get away with overall lower wages and higher staffing ratios.

does it? maybe. probably? i don't know. personally, i suspect that facilities would find other ways of cutting back on licensed staff, rather than improve conditions to the point where non-working nurses would come back to the bedside. uaps (unlicensed assistive personnel) are cheaper, easier (read cheaper) to replace, and can do many of the things licensed staff traditionally do, as long as the licensed staff does the assessments and charting. which is really unfortunate for those of us with nursing licenses -- we spend nanoseconds with the patient, yet "get" to complete mountains of paperwork (or pages of computer forms).

however, i work in a hospital that would be in a dire condition if it wasn't for our foreign nurses (most from the philippines). for the most part, i think we are very welcoming. maybe not --maybe i'm very naive. but i haven't seen any prejudice first-hand. if anything, people seem to prefer working with the nurses from the philippines because (at my hospital) they are perceived as hard working.

i'm not completely stupid; i'm sure some prejudice exists, but it hasn't yet occurred in front of me. you know, it is an unfortunate tradition in the usa for new immigrants to be mistreated by the immigrants of past generations. my irish-born relatives learned that first-hand in the early 1900s, as did their italian contemporaries. fortunately for them, they looked anglo enough that much of that was overcome by a change in their last name.

kind of ironic, isn't it?