As nurses do you see the need for medical assistants?

sharona97, BSN, RN · Feb 9, 2008

I think a more client friendly approach would be to know the plan prior to calling. I hate to sound elistist but perhaps the doc, NP or RN/LPN should make these kinds of calls in order to be available to answer questions, such as "what does a sodium of 130 mean and what should I be doing?".
I'm not anti-MA, because they definately have a place in MDs offices, but I sometimes think MDs take advantage of them, giving them extra duties, and of course getting those duties at MA salaries. It seems there are docs that do this like the recent thread about the doc who uses an LPN to call for me through the night.

A MA with an abnormal result should not b calling patients and giving rationale or f/u advise. All things ordered through the MD should be f/u by the ordering MD.

Not saying all MA's do this (which surprises me, it's common sense to me)but I realize that might be happpening within different healthcare environments..

sharona97, BSN, RN · Feb 9, 2008

Ya. as far as I know (though I have only been a patient of this doc for about a year) there is no RN/LPN or anything like that on staff.
I have seen, that doc, the other doc, the MA, and the receptionist, thought there may be more people I do not see.
And it was frustrating to wait a couple of hours to be told "double up on your med"

Office staff and hospital staff are run in very different ways. Then throw in how proficient is the office or floor run, and by whom....

jjjoy, LPN · Feb 9, 2008

Seems like if we keep giving away parts of nursing we will someday find that it is no longer a profession.

Nursing isn't "giving away parts of nursing." The business of health care is. Nursing tends be a catch all type of job. In hospitals, first they did just about everything for the sick patient besides surgery & prescribing drugs. Administering meds and changing dressings, addressing personal hygiene needs, cleaning the ward, and even cooking food for the patients. So someone realizes it would be more efficient to have someone else do the cooking. And someone else clean the floors & windows (housekeeping). And someone else attend to basic hygiene (nursing assistants). And someone else carry out physical therapy. And somone else administer respiratory therapy. And what does the nurse still do? Everything else as well as all of those other tasks if they don't get done for some reason.

In the physician's office, the physician needed an assistant. The physician could train someone up themselves from scratch, but if they hired a nurse, they knew she (and it was always a she wasn't it?) had at least some basic background and skills & patients could feel more confident in a licensed nurse assisting the physician than someone without credentials. However, as nurses wages have increased in hospitals, since they demand more pay for their high levels of responsibility, physicians don't want to pay the going price. The solution? Train up medical assistants who aren't qualified to compete for nursing jobs. They don't care if the person has a nurse's training or experience or not. They just want someone with enough training to help them with their needs. Of course, eventually, as medical assistants get more and more experience, they will be given more responsibility, they will rise to the challenge, they will demand a higher wage, and the physician will look elsewhere for their basic assistant needs.

Is there a need for medical assistants today? To physicians, definitely. And if they are trained sufficiently, why not? I think the bigger question is what exactly nursing? It's rather hard to protect one's professional turf if it's 'everything else.' Nursing is so broad and as medical care gets more and more specialized, it may be a natural progression that the kind of broad, catch-all category that is "nursing" be redefined.

For example, I could argue that the care medical assistants provide is in fact nursing care. After all, one needn't be a nurse to provide nursing care. Parents and loved ones provide nursing care regularly. Nursing assistants provide nursing care. They clearly are not nurses and yet...

Interesting question...

sharona97, BSN, RN · Feb 9, 2008

You can disagree but this was a person statement. As for MA I believe they should do their job by taking vitals histories apt dates etc but we all know they often do more then just this. This is my problem with a MA. I still would pick a doc over an MA for an invasive procedure. Sure the MA may have done more recently but they do not have the knowledge behind the procedure which is what scares me. I remember reading on another post somewhere someone said you can teach anymone how to perform an appy but it takes years to teach them what to do if something goes wrong. Soooooo true!

Let's say you're in training as a surgical tech. You know the different instruments, how to handle them, how to assist the doc with them and how to sterilize them. Now you have graduated. You have the knowledge behind the procedure and it's you're first day on the job. Are you concerned about your performance?

MA's are taught simple OP procedures and instruments. The doc does not have to teach the MA how to do it, he might teach her/him what he likes to do concerning that procedure.

sharona97, BSN, RN · Feb 9, 2008

Does anyone here think they should be allowed to call in prescriptions to the pharmacy for pts?
Just curious.
Thanks
Diane

If the MA board approves this in their state, then yes they can do it. Are they taught to look for "off" dosages and such, yes. In which case a good MA would ask the doc first. As a licensed individual in healthcare, would you not do the same?

Shenanigans, RN · Feb 9, 2008

As mentioned, they obviously have their place in rest homes and elder care facilities, but to be frank, I don't really like their role that much, and I"m a student nurse!

Of course, I think it boils down to the ones you've all worked with personally, and the ones I've met in my part time job AS a care giver, and as a student nurse are really rude, some of them have this huge chip on their shoulder.

To be rudely blunt, I'm sorry, but 10 years plus of wiping orifice does not mean you can tell me that a person can't develop allergies to egg just because "they've [the pt] has been eating it for years. And I certainly don't like a care giver telling me I can't do a manual BP because care givers don't do BPs, just because she doesn't know the difference between the numbers doesn't mean a 3rd year nursing student doesn't! Seesh.

Plus, I have seen too many caregivers give the wrong medications to the patients because "It was in their bubble pack and the pharamcist packed it so it must be right!"

Even as a nursing student I've met so many CGs who just don't have the knowledge base to practice safely. I think they should just stick to making beds and serving meals. As for showering, I've seen cases where a CG saw a wound or something important to mention, shrugged it off as no big deal, then the pt develops some huge infection.

OBviously I can really rant about this subject. :angryfire

Tweety, BSN, RN · Feb 9, 2008

To be rudely blunt, I'm sorry, but 10 years plus of wiping orifice does not mean you can tell me..............

Not only rude but disrespectful to CNA's, but let's not go there.

When a CNA comes up and tells me "somethings not right with this patient....", "come look at this patient.........", "do you think................".........I come running. Ten years of patient care ("wiping orifice" as a description of a CNA's duties is so demeaning and arrogant, I don't even want to go there) does indeed give them some insight that I respect. I can't tell you how many dozens of times the CNA has been my eyes and ears and helped to avoid a bad patient outcome.

TheCommuter, BSN, RN · Feb 9, 2008

Not only rude but disrespectful to CNA's, but let's not go there.
When a CNA comes up and tells me "somethings not right with this patient....", "come look at this patient.........", "do you think................".........I come running. Ten years of patient care (wiping orifice is so demeaning and arrogant, I don't even want to go there) does indeed give them some insight that I respect. I can't tell you how many dozens of times the CNA has been my eyes and ears and helped to avoid a bad patient outcome.

I'm in agreement. The most basic nursing tasks (bathing, toileting, feeding, dressing, hydrating) are actually the most crucial to the patient much of the time, and these duties are often performed by the CNAs. There's absolutely no need to demean and bemoan their important work.

Respect is a two-way street.

smk1, LPN · Feb 9, 2008

I think a more client friendly approach would be to know the plan prior to calling. I hate to sound elistist but perhaps the doc, NP or RN/LPN should make these kinds of calls in order to be available to answer questions, such as "what does a sodium of 130 mean and what should I be doing?".
I'm not anti-MA, because they definately have a place in MDs offices, but I sometimes think MDs take advantage of them, giving them extra duties, and of course getting those duties at MA salaries. It seems there are docs that do this like the recent thread about the doc who uses an LPN to call for me through the night.

I agree with Tweety, everyone has a place, but people with the proper educational background should be performing higher level tasks. The medical assistant at my doc's office called and tried to interpret test results for me recently and discuss my concerns and it was so far off the mark that I finally just asked politely if the doctor could call me back when she got the chance. I'm not going to get into exactly what the diagnosis was and what was said, but suffice it to say that what was told to me was very VERY dangerous information had I not had the edcuational background to know that it was false info. I've actaully had similar experiences with quite a few MA's. Used in the proper capacity, I think the role is appropriate and needed, but trying to expand their practice to include tasks that are beyond their education is dangerous. The same could be said of a nurse doing something beyond their scope.

smk1, LPN · Feb 9, 2008

I respectfully disagree. :)
If I had a choice between an experienced MA and the physician to draw my blood, I'd happily select the experienced MA any single day of the week. The MA training program is very skills-based, so the typical MA has excellent hands-on skills. As long as they are not practicing outside their scope, I'm comfortable with them.
Nobody needs a license in order to competently obtain vital signs, patient histories, specimins, appointment dates, etc. As long as the doctor is interpreting the information that has been gathered by the MA, then the MA is wholly practicing within his/her scope.

This is exactly how I feel the MA role should be utilized.

life_aknew · Feb 9, 2008

i love the profession of nursing. i have a high respect and admiration for nurses. i love this board because of all the information and the advice that is given, but i had nooo idea how despised medical assistants are by some nurses.

it's amazing to me that some don't even know what they do, but are displeased by them and their 'wannabe' ways.

well, let me say this, i became a medical assistant because i was young with a child and knew that i wanted to be in the medical field but didn't know where. as i went through life's trials and tribulations, it became ever so clear to me that my calling was nursing and that if i died in the process, i would become one. i am a wannabe nurse-not that i go around telling patients that i'm nurse in that sense or being even more outrageous by diagnosing and calling patients with abnormal labs-i'm a wannabe nurse because i admire you all so much and want the knowledge that some of you have and want to have a positive imapct on the people i come across.

i'm always the first to say that, where i've been employed, i've felt the title professional brown noser was much more accurate than ma. but you know what, i love holding a nervous patient's hand during an in office procedure. i loved setting up the exam rooms every morning and evening-i loved that the patients adored me and knew me for my kindness and tenderness.

i loved feeling like some way some how in this big empty world, i was doing my part even if it is just taking and documenting vital signs...

i could never do a nurse's job because i don't have the schooling nor the experience-so with that said i don't believe anyone has to worry about an ma, who is usually only trained for 9 months to a year, eradicating rn's.

it's just like what another poster said-there's enough room at the table for all sub levels of health care-i believe it's called allied health...but then again i'm just a lowly medical assistant, so what do i know? :rolleyes:

ann945n, RN · Feb 10, 2008

i love the profession of nursing. i have a high respect and admiration for nurses. i love this board because of all the information and the advice that is given, but i had nooo idea how despised medical assistants are by some nurses.
it's amazing to me that some don't even know what they do, but are displeased by them and their 'wannabe' ways.
well, let me say this, i became a medical assistant because i was young with a child and knew that i wanted to be in the medical field but didn't know where. as i went through life's trials and tribulations, it became ever so clear to me that my calling was nursing and that if i died in the process, i would become one. i am a wannabe nurse-not that i go around telling patients that i'm nurse in that sense or being even more outrageous by diagnosing and calling patients with abnormal labs-i'm a wannabe nurse because i admire you all so much and want the knowledge that some of you have and want to have a positive imapct on the people i come across.
i'm always the first to say that, where i've been employed, i've felt the title professional brown noser was much more accurate than ma. but you know what, i love holding a nervous patient's hand during an in office procedure. i loved setting up the exam rooms every morning and evening-i loved that the patients adored me and knew me for my kindness and tenderness.
i loved feeling like some way some how in this big empty world, i was doing my part even if it is just taking and documenting vital signs...
i could never do a nurse's job because i don't have the schooling nor the experience-so with that said i don't believe anyone has to worry about an ma, who is usually only trained for 9 months to a year, eradicating rn's.
it's just like what another poster said-there's enough room at the table for all sub levels of health care-i believe it's called allied health...but then again i'm just a lowly medical assistant, so what do i know?

i dont think anyone here is saying ma are not a part of the team and that they are not needed and trained. my problem is that of bounderies. there is no clear line for ma (as in here is what they can and cannot do). i often find ma doing things they should not that could harm people. here is my problem with the profession, not with the professional ma who know what they are able and trained to do. i am glad you like being an ma and think its is a respectful job to have, i think that laws need to be in place that control their practice more.