Artificial feeding-Terri Schiavo

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I posted this here becaue I think this subject is something that we as nurses deal with on a regular basis.....Many many people state that they have a big problem with the feeding being stopped "allowing her to starve to death" The Vatican says " To starve her to death is pitiless" Most everyone agrees that it is one's right to refuse to initiate artificial feeding but somehow this situation "is different" How? The patient "starves to death " in both cases-so why has this one galvanized the WORLD? My husband read me a quote from the Bible -forgive me because I can't remember it in detail-it was something along the lines that a woman marries and leaves her father's house and her husband becomes her family....My husband is my POA I hope no-one in my family questions his motives -He KNOWS exactly what I want....I can't question her husbands motives-I know that some suspect foul play and state the results of a bone scan support this...That bone scan was obtained 53 months after she went into her coma-after her body suffered the effects of her eating disorders for a number of years.... Her present level of responsiveness does not pertain to this matter IMHO-she CAN'T eat naturally--she did not ever want to "be kept alive like that " and she can't state otherwise at this point...So- #1 can someone PLEASE make me see why this case is" DIFFERENT" and #2 How do YOU support your patients and their loved ones when they are agonizing over this decision? ONe thing I always ask is "Did your loved one ever give you any idea of what they would want if something like this happened" and if they did then I advocate that stance for that pt as much possible.......I believe that death is the last great trip we'll go on and we should PLAN it as much as possible.The greatest GIFT we can give to our loved ones is an itinerary...........

Specializes in ICU.

Trial by media - we had it here with the Lindy Chamberlain story - you know the woman who had her baby stolen by a dingo??

This is what this has become - trial by media.

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jim asked:

2. Could you please provide links or other evidence as to the "local news out of Philly" making these statements?

~~~

i saw michael's brother, brian, i believe, on local channel 3 out of philly, a cbs affiliate. he said that his phone has been ringing all day with death threats. he was interviewed in his house standing in his kitchen.

i checked the website, but that particular interview is not available.

it is www.kyw.com if you'd like to search further.

I saw it on Channel 6 (www.wpvi.com). Don't know if it is on the website or not. Even if it is, I'm sure the next demand would be to somehow "prove" that those phone calls actually happened.

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Specializes in Happily semi-retired; excited for the whole whammy.
I am curious, however, what are the ethics involved, on either side, as far as lawyers writing books about their cases? Do any of our "legal experts" know anything about this? I know lawyers have written about their cases. I am just wondering...Do they have to get permission from their clients? At what point in their legal fight do they discuss this. I am just thinking how things could be construed, that this lawyer fought harder for so-and-so, because it had the makings of a great book?

I'm not sure, since I'm not an attorney either. However, I would think that yes, he had to get Michael Schiavo to sign a waiver to include anything that he learned about this case in protected conversations with Michael, or ones held on Michael's behalf, in his book. It seems like a kind of sleezy thing to capitalize on, but he certainly won't be the first or last to exploit this sad situation.

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Specializes in Med-Surg.
Trial by media - we had it here with the Lindy Chamberlain story - you know the woman who had her baby stolen by a dingo??

This is what this has become - trial by media.

Kind of like the poor fellow who was accused of boming the Atlanta Olympics. I remember reading an article on how his personality fit that of a killer (called him a dumpy, homely loner who lived with his mom) and the press hounded him mercilessly. He was proven innocent and sued for slander and is now rich.

We humans can be so judgemental can we not? Even when we really don't know the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. I don't know what to believe anymore about the Mr. Shaivo or his inlaws.

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Yes, excuse me, I meant Mr. Schindler.

Your neck injury example...there are plenty of ways to injure one's neck. I've had those same findings myself, and no one was harming me. Nowhere does the doc's statement say that the injuries were the result of an assault, let alone an assault by her husb. You're reading into it.

As far as the death threats, the local news out of Philly has had two spots on this. Terri's brother-in-law was just interviewed today and said that the phone has been ringing off the wall with people who ID themselves as supporters of the Schindlers.

Whatever...you're determined to demonize Michael Schaivo.

Perhaps Michael wanted Terri's last few moments to be a private matter between Terri and himself. He may not have wanted to risk the Schindlers dragging in the drum beaters, bagpipers and assorted wailers.

Hi Fab4Fan!!

I completely respect your opinions, but you don't think it's harsh at all that he forbid her family from having their last moments with her before she died? Whether having the feeding tube removed was done by him for unselfish or selfish reasons, he got what he wanted? If your daughter or sister was dying, wouldn't you want to be there? One of my biggest regrets in life is that I missed seeing my MawMaw for the last time while she was in hospice by one day.

also, either way, do we now know whether he was even with her when she died? When I was leaving for work this morning, CNN was reporting that he was in the hospice, but not with her.

I think my Dad said it best earlier today, "The saddest thing about this whole thing is that people are so fired up to prove that their side is right, that nobody cares that the Pope is dying."

RIP again to Terri and all my prayers are with the Pope, who recently received his Last Rites.

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Specializes in Vents, Telemetry, Home Care, Home infusion.

some facts:

st pettersburg police report re terri schiavo collapse:

no signs of outward sign of violence; physical inspection no signs of trauma to head or face

http://www.hospicepatients.org/police-report-02-25-90-terri-schiavo-collapse.pdf

wpvi tv, phila: threats against schiavo family

the emotions of the terri schiavo case in florida have spilled over to philadelphia. detectives here are conducting a manhunt for the person who threatened to kill a schiavo relative.

september 17, 2003

judge greer orders the removal of the peg tube to take place on october 15, 2003. he also rejects the schindlers' request that terri schiavo be given therapy to learn how to eat without the tube.

" ...irrefutable evidence that her cerebral cortex has sustained the most severe of irreparable injuries...case is about theresa schiavo's right to make her own decision, independent of her parents and her husband..."

9-17-03 court order

terri's decision was honored by her husband and the courts. may she now get the peace she so richly deserves. healing thoughts to her husband and parents.

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Specializes in Med-Surg.
Hi Fab4Fan!!

I completely respect your opinions, but you don't think it's harsh at all that he forbid her family from having their last moments with her before she died? Whether having the feeding tube removed was done by him for unselfish or selfish reasons, he got what he wanted? If your daughter or sister was dying, wouldn't you want to be there? One of my biggest regrets in life is that I missed seeing my MawMaw for the last time while she was in hospice by one day.

also, either way, do we now know whether he was even with her when she died? When I was leaving for work this morning, CNN was reporting that he was in the hospice, but not with her.

I think my Dad said it best earlier today, "The saddest thing about this whole thing is that people are so fired up to prove that their side is right, that nobody cares that the Pope is dying."

RIP again to Terri and all my prayers are with the Pope, who recently received his Last Rites.

Did Michael actually know the exact moment she was going to die?

I don't think he was being cruel, I think it was best that they be separated and stay separated. I'm sure her parents are heartbroken they missed her final breathes. I just can't imagine a spouse surrendering that time either.

So the obvious solution was for them to forgive each other for Terri's sake and be there together. Sad that didn't happen.

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Specializes in Happily semi-retired; excited for the whole whammy.
Hi Fab4Fan!!

I completely respect your opinions, but you don't think it's harsh at all that he forbid her family from having their last moments with her before she died? Whether having the feeding tube removed was done by him for unselfish or selfish reasons, he got what he wanted? If your daughter or sister was dying, wouldn't you want to be there? One of my biggest regrets in life is that I missed seeing my MawMaw for the last time while she was in hospice by one day.

also, either way, do we now know whether he was even with her when she died? When I was leaving for work this morning, CNN was reporting that he was in the hospice, but not with her.

I think my Dad said it best earlier today, "The saddest thing about this whole thing is that people are so fired up to prove that their side is right, that nobody cares that the Pope is dying."

RIP again to Terri and all my prayers are with the Pope, who recently received his Last Rites.

Right. I don't care how much he dislikes the Schindlers, or even whether those feelings are completely legitimate. All that should have been put aside, not for the Schindlers' sake, but for Terri's. Whatever problems there may have been in that family, by all accounts, they loved and cared for her. Knowing Terri's religious beliefs, their presence should have been in the room as her soul descended to heaven. Whatever other aspects of this case I may have mixed feelings about, I truly believe that this was wrong.

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Specializes in Med-Surg.
Right. I don't care how much he dislikes the Schindlers, or even whether those feelings are completely legitimate. All that should have been put aside, not for the Schindlers' sake, but for Terri's. Whatever problems there may have been in that family, by all accounts, they loved and cared for her. Knowing Terri's religious beliefs, their presence should have been in the room as her soul descended to heaven. Whatever other aspects of this case I may have mixed feelings about, I truly believe that this was wrong.

Did they ask to be there and he said no. We they offering to let bygones be bygones so they could be there with her?

Their anger at each other runs deep. If I knew someone out there thought I was murdering their daughter, cruel or not we could not be together at their death, without them forgiving me first.

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Did Michael actually know the exact moment she was going to die?

I don't think he was being cruel, I think it was best that they be separated and stay separated. I'm sure her parents are heartbroken they missed her final breathes. I just can't imagine a spouse surrendering that time either.

So the obvious solution was for them to forgive each other for Terri's sake and be there together. Sad that didn't happen.

I think it's best they were separated as well, but:

1. Like I said, it's only as far as I'm aware, but he wasn't even with Terri during those last moments.

2. Also, from what I understood before I left for work, they knew it was coming. There was a statement this morning that they didn't expect her to last more than a few hours.

I understand where you're coming from, Tweety. You've made some great posts in this thread and made me re-think some things. However, ANY benefit of the doubt I had for Mr. Schiavo went out with his selfishness and grudge.

And to the poster who talked about it being selfish for him to cremate her and bury her in his plot; not only to her family, but his new fiance..I never thought of it that way..I wonder what she has to be thinking.

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Specializes in Happily semi-retired; excited for the whole whammy.
Did they ask to be there and he said no. We they offering to let bygones be bygones so they could be there with her?

Their anger at each other runs deep. If I knew someone out there thought I was murdering their daughter, cruel or not we could not be together at their death, without them forgiving me first.

Yes, they asked and he said no. I don't know that they forgave him, I would have to guess not. But again, this would have been for Terri, not for them. He claims to love this woman enough that he is burying her in his family plot (despite being in love with another woman). He should have made sure that in death, these people who raised her and that she loved, were there.

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Specializes in Med-Surg.
Yes, they asked and he said no. I don't know that they forgave him, I would have to guess not. But again, this would have been for Terri, not for them. He claims to love this woman enough that he is burying her in his family plot (despite being in love with another woman). He should have made sure that in death, these people who raised her and that she loved, were there.

He hates them and they hate him. That's asking a lot. But I understand what you're saying.

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