Any ADN-BSN programs without ridiculous papers?

duskyjewel · Mar 24, 2013

I have a very old friend who is not originally from the States. She had to get her BSN, she did it online. She participated in the online discussions herself and did short assignments on her own. She had her son write the majority of her papers. She would give him the topic and a bit of the research and have him finish the paper and write it. She never got a grade higher than a "B" but didn't care. She said she just had to get it over with for the job. I know others who are doing the same- having college age kids write their papers.
She works two full time jobs/7 days a week by choice to send money home to family. She was able to finds a means to an end when it came to the BSN.
It is disheartening that this is how some people are forcing themselves to do it. It doesn't seem to have an impact in the way I think it was intended to- meaning doing it because you have to not because you want to. Finding a way to circumvent the process. Food for thought.

Uh, yeah.....this is called CHEATING. Your friend should have been thrown out of her program.

Jory, MSN, APRN, CNM · Mar 24, 2013

The purpose of higher education is to broaden your understanding. I don't think the programs need to change, at all. In fact, I prefer papers to tests because I always learn so much more.

I would quit now...it only gets harder.

Rnandsoccermom · Mar 27, 2013

Uh, yeah.....this is called CHEATING. Your friend should have been thrown out of her program.

Yes it may be, but this can be true of any online class in any field. It is a design flaw, I'm not saying it is right, but cheating can't be proven in this format and the schools know this. They don't seem to care, the "cheater" gave them $12,000.

soxgirl2008 · Mar 27, 2013

If you're paying that kind of money to do an RN-BSN program, you should at least be writing your own papers so you are the one gaining knowledge from them, not your son, daughter, significant other, etc. Yeah it sucks when you need to shell out that kind of money because your job is forcing you to, but you can at least learn the information too to help you become better at your job.

Higher education is supposed to broaden your knowledge as an RN. You aren't broadening your knowledge by having someone else write your papers, and honestly it's really a shame because you may have learned something important from that paper that could help you in providing better patient care. Just my 2 cents.

PMFB-RN, RN · Mar 27, 2013

The purpose of higher education is to broaden your understanding.

*** That may be but it is obviously NOT the motivation behind the "BSN required" crowd. If it was then an RN whit an ADN and a bachelors degree in another field would be considered the same as the RN with a BSN. After all they supposedly had their understanding broadened already when they earned their degree.

allnurses Guide · Mar 27, 2013

*** That may be but it is obviously NOT the motivation behind the "BSN required" crowd. If it was then an RN whit an ADN and a bachelors degree in another field would be considered the same as the RN with a BSN. After all they supposedly had their understanding broadened already when they earned their degree.

Ultimately, I hope this will be the consensus.

ixchel · Mar 27, 2013

*** That may be but it is obviously NOT the motivation behind the "BSN required" crowd. If it was then an RN whit an ADN and a bachelors degree in another field would be considered the same as the RN with a BSN. After all they supposedly had their understanding broadened already when they earned their degree.

Funny you should mention that. Why would someone do that? I know someone who has just decided to do this because they don't feel like taking the one extra pre-req the local BSN requires. Blows my mind! Additionally the 2nd degree BSN is an accelerated program. 1 more pre-req, one less semester. I don't get it!

PMFB-RN, RN · Mar 27, 2013

Funny you should mention that. Why would someone do that? I know someone who has just decided to do this because they don't feel like taking the one extra pre-req the local BSN requires. Blows my mind! Additionally the 2nd degree BSN is an accelerated program. 1 more pre-req, one less semester. I don't get it!

*** Really? You don't understand why a reasonable person might choose to get their nurses training close to home at a local community college for (lets's say) $6K rather than possibily relocating across the state to spend (let's say) $40K getting their nurses training at a university? Especialy since both will make the same after graduation. That is hard for you to get?

Also consider that many community colleges offer part time and evening and weekend program options that I have never heard offered in an accelerated BSN program. This makes it possible for working people, people who might not be able to devote 100% of their lives to nursing school to become nurses.

As far as I am concerned nursing NEEDS those people. The diversity they bring to nursing makes us much stronger IMO.

According to an instructor of a local comunity college ADN program who places student with me for preceptorship (I only take ADN students) 2/3 of their ADN students already have bachelors or masters degrees. I have had a student with a masters in architecture, a student with a masters in education, and a student with a bachelors degree in dairy science do preceptorships with me from this college. They were all wonderful.

wooh, BSN, RN · Mar 27, 2013

*** That may be but it is obviously NOT the motivation behind the "BSN required" crowd. If it was then an RN whit an ADN and a bachelors degree in another field would be considered the same as the RN with a BSN. After all they supposedly had their understanding broadened already when they earned their degree.

So two people have an Associate's Degree in Spanish. One gets a Bachelor's Degree in Spanish Education. The other gets a Bachelor's degree in Business. Are both equally qualified to teach Spanish? Should be, as apparently the entire Bachelor's degree part of a BSN is exactly the same as any other Bachelor degree.

ixchel · Mar 27, 2013

*** Really? You don't understand why a reasonable person might choose to get their nurses training close to home at a local community college for (lets's say) $6K rather than possibily relocating across the state to spend (let's say) $40K getting their nurses training at a university? Especialy since both will make the same after graduation. That is hard for you to get?
Also consider that many community colleges offer part time and evening and weekend program options that I have never heard offered in an accelerated BSN program. This makes it possible for working people, people who might not be able to devote 100% of their lives to nursing school to become nurses.
As far as I am concerned nursing NEEDS those people. The diversity they bring to nursing makes us much stronger IMO.
According to an instructor of a local comunity college ADN program who places student with me for preceptorship (I only take ADN students) 2/3 of their ADN students already have bachelors or masters degrees. I have had a student with a masters in architecture, a student with a masters in education, and a student with a bachelors degree in dairy science do preceptorships with me from this college. They were all wonderful.

I don't know where in the world 3 semesters of education could possibly cost $40,000, but perhaps that is a locality thing? I'll give you this much - it IS more expensive to attend a university. But if we're going apples to apples here, the university and community college that are local to me are only about 10 minutes apart from each other. No one here would have to move across the state. The community college costs about $2k per semester (a little more, actually, and that includes books, fees and supplies), vs. about $3500 per semester at the university (which does NOT include books, fees and supplies - that would probably be another $1500). 6 semesters at the community college would be $10,000 (they have classes in the summer time that cost probably half as much, and they go 1 year for LPN, then 1 year for RN. They also typically have a much longer wait list), vs. 3 semesters at the university, at $10,500 + $1,500 for books, fees and supplies. If you are going to possess more hire-ability and promotability, the extra investment is WORTH it. Especially when you consider you will spend a heck of a lot more time and money if you decide to bridge later. The university also has the highest NCLEX pass rate for the last few years in the state, vs. the community college having one of the lowest, also for the last few years.

As for the idea that they don't have the ability to "devote 100% of their lives to nursing school to become nurses", again, local to me, the hours of the classes and the clinicals are nearly the same. I do agree that the BSN is a little bit less flexible, but only on class days. Clinical days are daytime or evening. Perhaps my area isn't typical. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here. I am basing my opinion on the very thorough research I have done of the schools I considered. For people who are local to ME, it is NOT beneficial to them to get an ADN if they already possess a BSN, provided scheduling classes isn't a challenge for them. I admit that that would be a very good reason to rule out our accelerated BSN.

I'm getting the feeling by your post that you feel I must look down on someone who would choose the ADN route instead. I don't look down on anyone for making ANY personal choice. We all have our circumstances in life that lead us down the path that we choose. I can only speak to my own experience and what I know of the programs near me. I believe a person here choosing ADN instead of BSN after they already have a bachelor's degree would be selling themselves very short, but would I ever treat them as less than me, or view them as less? No, not for a second. I apologize if I gave you the impression that I feel any differently.

soxgirl2008 · Mar 27, 2013

I don't know where in the world 3 semesters of education could possibly cost $40,000, but perhaps that is a locality thing? I'll give you this much - it IS more expensive to attend a university. But if we're going apples to apples here, the university and community college that are local to me are only about 10 minutes apart from each other. No one here would have to move across the state. The community college costs about $2k per semester (a little more, actually, and that includes books, fees and supplies), vs. about $3500 per semester at the university (which does NOT include books, fees and supplies - that would probably be another $1500). 6 semesters at the community college would be $10,000 (they have classes in the summer time that cost probably half as much, and they go 1 year for LPN, then 1 year for RN. They also typically have a much longer wait list), vs. 3 semesters at the university, at $10,500 + $1,500 for books, fees and supplies. If you are going to possess more hire-ability and promotability, the extra investment is WORTH it. Especially when you consider you will spend a heck of a lot more time and money if you decide to bridge later. The university also has the highest NCLEX pass rate for the last few years in the state, vs. the community college having one of the lowest, also for the last few years.

I think it really depends where you live. I can name 3 BSN programs within an hour of where I live that would cost $40,000. Even if you take all the pre-reqs at a community college, the BSN programs are still 4 semesters in length of clinical work and within an hour of where I live there is one public university with a nursing program. Most nursing programs in my state are through private universities and all cost more than $40,000 by the time you're done. The public university BSN program only lets in 24 people a year and is extremely competitive. The ADN program is about 8,000 for 4 semesters and around here having a BSN does not give you a great advantage. ADNs and BSNs are both hired regularly at the hospitals. The ADN program has a higher NCLEX rate than the BSN program, and has an agreement with almost all BSN programs in the state that all credits transfer. When I graduate with my ADN I'm able to bridge through the public university (Their bridge program isn't nearly as competitive as their traditional BSN) and it'll cost me less than $15,000.

I don't have a previous bachelors degree, but I do have over 70 credits from a university including all the pre-reqs for the public university's BSN program. I didn't get in. My choices were graduate from the ADN program, and bridge through my former university where I'll only need 6 classes for my BSN and cost me less than $15,000 or spend $40,000 at a private BSN program and graduate at the same time I will with my BSN, and where I live I am almost just as likely to be employed as an ADN as with a BSN. I wouldn't necessarily say that everyone with a prior bachelors who goes the ADN route is selling themselves short. It really depends on the schools in your area and the hiring practices where you live. Also, the state I live in doesn't have many ABSN programs, so most people with prior bachelors degrees are forced to do a traditional BSN program.

PMFB-RN, RN · Mar 28, 2013

So two people have an Associate's Degree in Spanish. One gets a Bachelor's Degree in Spanish Education. The other gets a Bachelor's degree in Business. Are both equally qualified to teach Spanish? Should be, as apparently the entire Bachelor's degree part of a BSN is exactly the same as any other Bachelor degree.

*** You are compairing apples and oranges. The BA in Spanish is probably about SPANISH and a student likely becomes MORE profecient in spanish as a result of obtaining a bachelors vs an associates. That isn't the case in nursing and I know it from personal experience, as well as the experience of many co-workers and friends. The BSN isn't about becomeing a better nurse. I think I got dumber getting a BSN as compaired to the training I could have used that time for. There was little nursing related content in my BSN program and absolutly no content related to my area of nursing. The level of discourse was pathetic. In particular the portion of the program aimed at teaching cultural awareness was pathestic. Maybe OK for a kid who never left their little all white small town but for a man who has spend years living abroad it was supeficial. Not just me either. My friends and co-workers complain about the same thing and we didn't all go to the same school. I didn't go to a fly-by-night online school either. I went to a well respected state university with a real school of nursing offering a variety of advanced practice programs at the MSN and DNP level.