We were discussing the Disneryland measles outbreak at work, and I was appalled to find some of my co-workers refuse to vaccinate their kids. They (grudgingly) receive the vaccines they need to remain employed, but doubt their safety/necessity for their kids.
I must say, I am absolutley stunned. How can one be a nurse and deny science?
As a nurse, you should darn well know what the scientific method entails and what phrases such as "evidence based" and "peer reviewed" mean.
I have to say, I have lost most of my respect for the nurses and mistrust their judgement; after all, if they deny science, on what premise are they basing their practices?
Exactly! I'm glad you brought this up. Research for various drugs are funded by those who have something to gain.
Research for many drugs is funded by pharm companies, absolutely. Especially new drugs, they are required to fund and perform that research to prove safety and efficacy of the new treatment. It is the basic tenant of the safety of our medical system.
Much/most of the research on the long term efficacy and safety of vaccines that have been around for as long as most of the vaccines on the current schedules are done by academic researchers with government funding.
Money is what it's all about. Pharm reps come to doctors and wine and dine them. It's all part of the business. They bring in food for staff and throw in perks if doctors prescribe certain drugs to patients. Healthcare is a business. It's not so much about what is best for the patient all the time. As you said, all the corporations tie in. Mainstream media only reports certain things. The government is involved too. It's not a conspiracy as some would say, it's just what is really going on. MERCK is also known to provide perks to consumers. I believe they were offering a chance to win an iPad if college students got the HPV vaccine. A vaccine that has so many negative health affects and has caused many girls to become paralyzed, yet we don't hear the news reporting on that.
It's not a conspiracy, but the company, the government, and the media is involved in it.... Oh and don't forget the independent academic researchers, and.....
Specializes in Nurse Leader specializing in Labor & Delivery.
Pharm reps come to doctors and wine and dine them. It's all part of the business. They bring in food for staff and throw in perks if doctors prescribe certain drugs to patients.
10 or 20 years ago maybe, but not so much anymore. I'm lucky if we get pens anymore from pharmaceutical reps. The last "swag" I received was a zip-clip type badge holder with a Mirena IUD dangling from the end. Woohoo!
I remember when my youngest was born and I had lactation failure and realized that I was going to need to start supplementing, our formula rep offered to give me a few cases of formula. Then she came back the following week and said "Sorry, not allowed."
Most places no longer allow their providers/employees to accept costly gifts and dinners from commercial reps, as they have recognized it as being a conflict of interests.
As stated earlier, Steve Jobs' pancreatic cancer was a rare one, not the typical one we always hear about that is pretty much a death sentence.
Jobs' wife said that he engaged in "magical thinking," preferring to try some kind of special diet to treat a cancer which can only really be successfully treated with surgery. He just didn't like the idea of being "cut into."
Even if if he did have surgery sooner, pancreatic cancer is a killer.
Yes, I guess from the "naturalistic" lifestyle, he was doomed regardless.
His cancer however; was highly treatable (with that nasty modern medicine).
Pancreatic adenocarcinoma is really vicious, this is the one we hear about the most. It rarely present before it is metastasized and the 5 year survival is a mere 4% (Vincent, Herman, Schulick, Hruban & Goggins, 2011).
Neuroendocrine pancreatic tumors on the other hand (like Mr. Jobs had) have much better survival rates ( Halperin & Kulke, 2012):
Stage I: nearly 100% 5yr
Stage II: 93% 5yr
Stage III: 65% 5yr
Stage IV: 35% 5yr (still way higher than metastasized pancreatic adenocarcinoma)
Here's an ironic twist to this whole convoluted issue (in this thread anyway). What's one of the biggest hopes in pancreatic adenocarinoma treatment nowadays? Vaccines!!!! (Le et al., 2015).
Le, D.T., Wang-Gillam, A., Picozzi, V., Greten, T.F., Crocenzi, T., Springett, G., . . . Jaffee, E.M. (2015). Safety and survival with GVAX pancreas prime and listeria-monocytogenes-expressing mesothelin (CRS-207) boost vaccines for metastatic pancreatic cancer. Journal of Clinical Oncology, 33(5), 1-6
Haperin, D.M. & Kulke, M.H. (2012). Management of pancreatic neuroendocrine tumors. Gastroenterology Clinics of North America, 41(1), 119-131.
Vincent, A., Herman, J., Schulick, R., Hruban, R.H. & Goggins, M. (2011). Pancreatic cancer. The Lancet, 378(9791), 607-620.
Wow, was there lab evidence of high aluminum levels? Cause that doesn't so much sound like aluminum poisoning but rather like argyria or silver poisoning (I used to watch every episode of those medical mystery shows). Was she taking colloidal silver preparations?
Yes, that is what she was diagnosed with, and it was related to the vaccine. It was reported as an injury. No she doesn't take colloidal silver.
It's not up to us to debate whether or not his choice to hold off on surgery was right or not. It was his choice. Maybe some think of it as a tragedy, while others veiw it as heroic and brave. Medical intervention is not the only way. Some people accept death and are comfortable with it. Some would like to die with dignity instead of prolonging the inevitable and living in pain and disfigurement. That is one thing that I notice about our culture. We are now so removed and disconnected from death, and we go to great lengths to try and avoid it. But this situation is for an entirely different thread.
Science by definition isn't biased. That's the difference between real science and pseudoscience.
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The science you and others have provided is. You are biased and only present science that supports your ideas. Again, that's why the procon site is beneficial. Yet, you say it's not good enough. Do I need to go to that site and click the footnotes that lead to the studies and post them here? It seems instead of arguing vaccines, you would rather argue about what science is or isn't, and refuse to look at anything that might go against what you believe.
Reasons 1-6 being, "because autism, yo." I admit to only skimming, but that was the gist of it.
Don't skim because you missed all the rest. It actually contains links to studies that show vaccines do not cause autism and studies that show it does cause autism.
This is is what I want you all to notice. It shows both sides here. Science that could support both sides. Because the data is not clear, many choose to err on the side of caution.
zmansc, ASN, RN
867 Posts
Research for many drugs is funded by pharm companies, absolutely. Especially new drugs, they are required to fund and perform that research to prove safety and efficacy of the new treatment. It is the basic tenant of the safety of our medical system.
Much/most of the research on the long term efficacy and safety of vaccines that have been around for as long as most of the vaccines on the current schedules are done by academic researchers with government funding.
It's not a conspiracy, but the company, the government, and the media is involved in it.... Oh and don't forget the independent academic researchers, and.....
It's the non-conspiracy conspiracy!