Anatomy and Physiology I and II - drop out rate

[Elizabeth 123]

Hi all, I have a question about A&P I and II. In general, after approx. the first one-third of A&P I semester, after a lot of the students drop out, is there a minor change in grading or testing of labs, or perhaps more direction/cooperation from the teacher, as they know these are the hard core students?

Also, when a student gets to A&P II, is there a more consistent class without so many dropouts, because they would have dropped out in A&P I? Not sure if I am wording this clearly... Just curious as to how the flow goes, and the unspoken truths about A&P I and II, with dropout rates versus students who stay in the class and then pass.....

[cgravier]

in my school only a few people dropped. No more than any other class really. A&P is not really that hard I dont see what the big deal is. Just study moar, internet less

Everyone said a&p 2 was much easier than 1 but I did not find this to be true. It was only slightly easier.

[Elizabeth 123]

I am glad for you. It sounds like a great bunch of students in a great school.

(ignore the faint voice in the background; just me jumping off of a cliff)

[ericHCC]

Hi. Not many people dropped out of A&P I although some did. I noticed that once people got to A&P II they were much more serious and less drop outs. A&P II is not harder than I, it is just more focused on physiology as opposed to the pure anatomy of I which can just be boring. I am at Hillsborough Community College in Tampa after deciding to make a career change and the thing I found frustrating in the A&P classes is that when you got an "A" on a test, if too many people did poorly, the teachers were always bumping everyone up so everyone that got 'B's got A's. Must be something to do with administration telling the professors to do this. The material could have been very difficult but it was all in the way the professors tested the material. The tests weren't that bad. Years ago I was formerly a pre-med undergrad and a lot of the material was similar, however, in the premed biology classes it was tested MUCH MUCH harder. All written answer and fill in. You had to know your s** or you would get a C or worse and no curve! Imagine having to memorize and regurgitate physiological processes etc., instead of choosing a multiple answer. It sucked! I guess thats why the doctors make so much money..I switched majors and got my business degree in my 3rd year.

[Elizabeth 123]

Hi EricHCC,

Did your A & P professor say ahead of the time that they would grade on a curve? Or did their syllabus quote the standard grading system, and the curve was not discussed but just happened? A lot of comments on here seem to state that most professors do not curve.

[Streamline2010]

I took A&P I & II at a local community college that is a popular place for diploma RN candidates to take prerequisites, and the college also offers it's own associate degree RN program. So, they do not teach "lite" A&P. It's a difficult course at a competitive school. Plus, with their own RN program, the A&P serves as a weedout for lesser students.

That said, the school told me that 60% of anatomy (A&P I) students do not pass it on the first try. Imagine: The majority of the class doesn't pass it. Now, depending on who is in the class, there may be zero dropouts or there may be 1/3 of the class dropping out. Generally, anyone over the age of 28 or so will stick out the course am manage to pass it. The college newcomers were the ones most likely to drop it.

Fro A&P II, there were a few dropouts, but they were people who'd beem low C grades in I, or else people who decided that maybe nursing or life sciences wasn't where they wanted to be. Again, low dropout rate for age 25+ as opposed to the younger students.

I personally found A&P I, the anatomy part, very stressful and grueling. The pace was a real forced march, and the content was largely rote memorization. I would not call the material difficult, but keeping pace and retaining it all was difficult. Also, the exams covered 4 chapters at at time, anywhere from only 30 questions to up to 57. With only 30 questions, it was easy to have concentrated on subject material that didn't wind up on the test. That, I blame on the instructor. With a 2-hour lecture period, or an hour and a half, there's no reason to have a little abbreviated 30 question exam and then turn everyone loose to go home early. If they up the number of questions to 75-100, students who are prepared can finish the exam in the allotted time, and having more questions increased the number of possible points and gave you more chances to win, so to speak.

A&P II was almost all physiology. It was less memorization, perhaps, but still a lot of material to digest. I did better in A&P II than I, grade-wise, but I attribute that to having improved my study skills substantially in A&P I.

There was no "curve" but both instructors added a couple of extra credit assignments that people could use to get points. Example: Pick a question that you missed on the exam, and then investigate it, and write a little summary report on what was the correct answer, and also explain exactly why the other 3 or 4 answer choices were wrong. +repeat that for the questions you missed, for up to 5 questions. That was A&P I. For A&P II, we had an assignment to draw the kidney structure and nephron structure, and label all of the parts.

[akanini, MSN, RN]

I know I'm in A&P 2 now and it's killing my butt!

[ericHCC]

Elizabeth... The teachers didn't usually technically "curve" the grade but they gave us opportunities to write essays and do extra assignments outside of class to give a substantial edge. There were a few instances where on a 50 question test, the teacher would add about 4 points. Cummulatively it gave students that didn't do as well the opportunity to move up a letter grade or two. As I said before when I went through three years of pre-med with more advanced microbiology, chemistry, organic chem, biology, etc, I never had a curved grade the whole 3 years I took those classes so it seemed kind of unfair that students were able to do work outside of class to boost their grades. Especially when getting into the nursing program was GPA driven. I wouldn't count on this in other schools though. I thought it was unusually for this to be occurring.

[soxgirl2008]

A&P is not really that hard I dont see what the big deal is. Just study moar, internet less

Just because A&P isn't a big deal at your school doesn't mean it isn't at others. I know a lot of schools where A&P IS really hard even for the students who are really smart and used to studying all the time. A lot of schools (mine included) make it hard on purpose to weed out pre-nursing and pre-health people. The tests are all written tests, no multiple choice, and the professors are very very picky. It's great that it wasn't that hard for you, but for a lot of people it's not as simple as "study more, internet less"

[ericHCC]

I agree it all depends on the way the tests are written. The book is pretty much the same wherever you take A&P. I mean if you really read that book, there is a LOT of information. This class could be made really really hard or not so hard depending on the tests. In undergrad pre-med classes the professors are definitely there to weed people out. All written and fill in. I remember in Cell Biology not only were the tests 8-10 pages long and all written but a 96 was an A. There was more than one instance where nobody in the class got an A. The A&P class has so much useful information in it and it is so helpful the more you read it the better the advantage you will have later on. It is a great foundation for really understanding things. Even if the tests are easy study the book it is a great text!

[Saysfaa]

Elizabeth,

Mine did not curve.

The anatomy prof gave, at most, 4 pounts extra credit per 100 point test and they were very difficult (truely outside of any material covered in class or the book). Some tests had no extra credit. Otherwise every point available was from the test questions, there was no paper, no redo, no points for homework. In the whole term, he threw out one question (it was a typo).

The physiology class had a different prof and had lots of helps for the grade. He did things like dropping the lowest test score of the term, writing a paper to count as an extra test, dropping any test question that most people missed. He told us about them at the beginning of the class, it wasn't making it easier for those still there late in the term.

My current anatomy class (comparative anatomy) has a third prof and does not curve. There will be five extra credit points (per 100 point test) on each test other than the first one and no other extra credit.

[Anne36, LPN]

ericHCC,

"In undergrad pre-med classes the professors are definitely there to weed people out. All written and fill in."

I just finished A&P 2 at a community college and this is exactly what our exams were like. All short answer, essay ,once in a while a few matching. It was horrible and very hard to study for these exams, you either knew it or you didnt, no word banks.

[JROregon, ASN, BSN, RN]

It was hard to tell how many people dropped out because though there were empty seats throughout the class for the lectures, there was always a full house for exams. Hmm. During lectures, sometimes half the class was missing. We have A&P split into 3 terms, covering different body systems. I finally figured out that the people who missed all the lectures had either dropped or got less than a C the first time around. They were just retaking the class. The ones who did not attend lecture usually ended up with a cr@ppy grade, even if they had the class once before.