Hi all, I have a question about A&P I and II. In general, after approx. the first one-third of A&P I semester, after a lot of the students drop out, is there a minor change in grading or testing of labs, or perhaps more direction/cooperation from the teacher, as they know these are the hard core students?
Also, when a student gets to A&P II, is there a more consistent class without so many dropouts, because they would have dropped out in A&P I? Not sure if I am wording this clearly... Just curious as to how the flow goes, and the unspoken truths about A&P I and II, with dropout rates versus students who stay in the class and then pass.....
I always felt a little unhappy about the "weed-out" situation in bio and A&P. I knew that if it were important to understand the subject, and if the goal was actually to teach students what they need to know, it could have been done for almost everyone in the class. Instead, it was, as someone said earlier, a "forced march". I know that some of the people who got weeded out could have been good nurses. I arranged my life so that school was all I had to do, but some of the single mothers couldn't do that. They got weeded out for, I think, the wrong reasons.
I am having a challenge with spending hours studying for lab, when I would rather make sure I learn all of the pages of lecture material. But I can't let up on the lab grade either, as of course the lecture & lab grades are combined for the course. I would have thought our 1 credit for lab would be less time-consuming so that we could devote hours and hours more to studying the lecture material, which would be helpful.
OnMyWay, I don't know of any nursing programs that aren't paced. Seems to me if the student can't arrange his life enough to make it through the prereqs, he won't make it through the nursing program either. Therefore, easing up isn't really doing him any favors.
There are several ways to arrange life enough to make it through pre reqs. One option would be to learn much of it on his own before taking the class. That might work for those who find it much easier to go to school full time for two year but not three.
As a rule, instructors will not ever change the way they grade. Which makes sense, it can be very problematic if a student felt they were graded unfairly and failed a class while others, later, were graded more easily, and, frankly, it would be hard to argue with those students who felt that way.
As for the drop rate, yeah in my class the bulk of folks dropped in I, by the time we got to II, everybody pretty much knew they could hack it.
First time college student in my first semester (You may have seen my crying in other threads, the 36 yr old guy). College originally had 2 lectures for A&P scheduled, but decided to make it into 1 giant lecture of nearly 60 people, with 2 labs.
We're starting week 4 and it looks that roughly 10 people are gone, or just not showing up. Still, it's pretty packed, and I can also confirm that there are a good number of 'retakers' in my A&P course (both lecture and lab): I've had a study group going since week 1 (We've had quizzes since day 2 on lecture, and last week we had our first lab Exam/Practical- 104%, if you're curious :) ), and one of the retakers is in it, she scored an 86 and was so thrilled. We had ops for bonus points on our exam, 2 questsions, 2pts each (standard is 1 pt).
Our professor will also replace the lowest exam grade with whatever we score on the Final provided it's higher, and drops our 2 lowest quizzes (we have 12 quizzes, 1 a week, so graded only for 10). Constant quizzing every other day is just evil, evil, evil, but forces us to keep up. The downside is if you're taking a lot of hours you're in for a juggle (like me- 14 hours).
This is probably my favorite course now, and I was dreading/fearing it the most. It's a ton of studying. When I say ton, I mean more than you may be ready for. I wasn't ready for it, but adapted quickly. (A's on all my quizzes so far) Lots of rote memorization- All body systems+functions, all body cavities+minor cavities and the organs they contain, etc That's easy. Then the trickier stuff here at first: chemistry, recognizing differences in muscle tissue types, and understanding concepts you may/not have ever been exposed to, such as homeostasis, action potential, etc.
To be fair though, the teacher for A&P 1, which is different than A&P 2, is super nice, understanding, and will give partial credit for putting answers such as "nucleoli" for "nucleolus" on the practical. Couldn't have asked for a better teacher for this course in my first semester ever.
That said- I wish more people would drop out of the course, or they'd split it up. It's so distracting. You have these adults, most of them are in the course for a reason (nursing), who are just not serious- they don't turn off cell phones, they eat with crinkly wrappers in class, they whisper and giggle to each other. I kid you not- on my first quiz (day 2, we had to know all 11 systems of the body+regions/cavities/organs in each and more) some girl starts off by playing Motley Peg while people are taking the quiz (yes, she literally pulled out a pencil, spread her hand/fingers, and played motley peg, loudly). On my last quiz some self-centered child decided that letting her cell phone buzz in her desk then talking to her neighbor while people were taking the quiz was "Ok" because it didn't affect her.
Either way- get in A&P. It's a great class. If you can take A separate from P do so, but you'll love it if you're truly interested in the body.
Saysfaa, you are right about all nursing courses being paced. and, to be fair, I have talked with older nurses as they sat in the podiatrist's chair, me taking medical histories and such, and they all agreed; the weedout courses are harsh, but if you're a patient you hope that your nurses are people who are capable of making it through something like that. I understand, but nonetheless it was frustrating to feel that the weedout process was more important to the program than the educational one. Almost every one of us were seriously near the edges of sanity, and even some of the younger students saw increases in BP and were prescribed blood pressure medications. That said, A&P courses were the most interesting I have ever taken. Now I can hardly wait for clinicals to start!
Specializes in Psych, LTC/SNF, Rehab, Corrections.
Wow...reading some of these I'm glad for the school I attend.
- Minus 2 people, everyone in my class is pre-nursing/pre-med/pre-other health related modalities. So...no time-wasters. I also attend school at night...with the (working) ADULTS. *wink*
- Our lecture Prof doesn't lose students - and the former students we've met are successful.
- We cover a lot of material but the Profs are not actually trying to fail anyone.
I just don't understand the purpose of the weed-out process. Trick questions and such. Random info.
I don't say that a teacher has to switch up their technique...I'm saying that A&P shouldn't be made out to be complicated - because it isn't.
I'll tell you what's complicated --> Economics can be annoyingly complicated. Physics is complicated. Chemistry is complicated. Statistics is complicated. Stochastic Mathematics...is com-pli-cated.
A&P...?
There's no need to 'remake' the wheel, here.
Where I am? If you fail A&P - you simply aren't trying.
There are too many resources available.
The Prof's are fair. The in-class quizzes and exams are 'fill in the blank'...so we're not cutting corners. Yet, the Nat Sci dept does everything in it's power to accomodate and help the students. We have cd's to purchase(filled with a&P review stuff).
We had a mock lab exam...optional. They're trying to expand tutoring hours to help the night students, too.
The Prof's allow us to drop in on other lectures as well...to ensure that we have a thorough understanding.
My understanding of the "weed-out" process is not trick questions or random info. It is simply a class taught at a high enough level and with enough expectations that those who either don't know how to learn at that level (or don't figure it out quickly) don't make it through.
Can't recall any big change in the teacher in either class re: how they taught or tested us.
I don't know how many people dropped 1, but in my 2 class (lecture online, lab at school) only two out of twenty dropped, one b4 the class even started.
Our courses are separated - Anatomy, Physiology and Pathophysiology rather than combined A&Ps
We started with 26 (I think) in Anatomy and finished with 14. A couple of those who stayed were taking it for the 2nd time. I took all 3 (Anatomy, Physiology and Patho) as hybrid courses which means that I attended lab on campus and the lecture portion of the courses were web-based.
I will say that my anatomy lab professor told us on day one that the course was difficult, she didn't put up with lateness, absences, distracting students, etc. She came off as very no nonesense and we actually had one person leave at the first break during lab and never come back. That said, if you worked hard she would provide any help you needed. She expected her students to attend open lab time and if she saw you working hard, she was willing to help you be successful. So, I guess I did see a little change after the drop deadline. Once those who were not willing or able to do the work were gone, she knew the remaining students were dedicated and while nothing in her teaching changed, she lost some of the hard-nosed appearance that she put out on that first day of class. She explained that her class tended to have an upside down bell curve - those who worked hard got mostly As and Bs and those who didn't generally failed - there weren't a lot of Cs in that class.
In Physiology we didn't lose as many people, but I think that the class average was generally lower. Anatomy is actually pretty easy if you are willing to put in the memorization time. However, physiology and pathophysiology are much more application and thought based with more short answer and essays rather than fill in the blanks.
lol my class started out wit bout 26 student n only 13 were left after ap1 was over. my class combined wit my teachers other class for ap2 and bout 8 people dropped during second semester
I am a 40 year old changing careers to become a nurse. I remember the first day of lecture... so hot it the room, not because of the Air not working but every seat was filled. I live in a very medical centered town and so many follow my new path. Now doing lecture I see half or less. I remember reading somewhere 50% of students nation wide drop out or get a C or less. I have a great professor, but skipping is not one of the things you can do to be sucessful. Does he take it easy now, not at all lol. His speech the first day was 10 reasons not to take him. One letter off on an answer gets you 0 points. Brook versus Brooks... I am only in AP One but am taking the same professor next semester. I have friends that are nurses, my primary is a nurse practitioner and they don't recall the things I know now. It is not easy, a lot of memorization. In my school if you get a B you are borderline of getting into nursing program, that is why so many drop. I do find though that lab is the anatomy (what) and lecture is the philosophy (how) at least for me.
OnMyWay2Nursing
5 Posts
I always felt a little unhappy about the "weed-out" situation in bio and A&P. I knew that if it were important to understand the subject, and if the goal was actually to teach students what they need to know, it could have been done for almost everyone in the class. Instead, it was, as someone said earlier, a "forced march". I know that some of the people who got weeded out could have been good nurses. I arranged my life so that school was all I had to do, but some of the single mothers couldn't do that. They got weeded out for, I think, the wrong reasons.