ANA rec BSN vs ASN

Tweety, BSN, RN · Jun 16, 2005

I hear ya Deb. Next semester is just coreq coorifices like World Religions. While I'm sure it's a fascinating course that I'll enjoy much more than Statistics, there's no practical value in it for me. It won't make me a better nurse, and won't make me a more well rounded person, imo.

But like you, I'm not considering the BSN so I can be a "professional meeting the entry level standard to be an RN". :)

SmilingBluEyes · Jun 16, 2005

now that World Religion course sounds VERY good to me. I love studies like those.....and all liberal arts/foreign languages. Ah to be able to study just those!

GrnHonu99, RN · Jun 16, 2005

Oh my...see ive missed a bit this week:) well now that i have a chance to breathe (tough school week) i thought id throw my 2cents in for what it is worth:)

1.) For the entry level into practice: I do believe that more education makes you a better a critical thinker but do I think that a BSN over an ADN makes you a better nurse? well i dont know, i think that that depends on the individual. Im a HUGE supporter of education BUT I do not necc. think that a pathophys class here and a prof roles and issue class there neccesarily makes you a better nurse per se....

Being a "good nurse" encompasses so many different aspects. I think we sometimes tend to forget that...being a nurse is so much more than what you learn IN class..

Personally, I obtained a BA in psychology in 2004 and am now completing an MN (general masters) in nursing. I am thankful for my liberal arts undergrad degree, it has proved most useful:) Will it make me a better nurse? Well, I hope so, BUT, I guess i'll never know. I do believe that my education has changed the way that I view the world, but in IMO that is just one facet of being a "good nurse". Yes, critical thinking is important, but so is compassion and so are people skills and on and on...Im just a student but there is so much for me still to learn and there are many different ways of learning, not just school! I would be honored to have a seasoned nurse precept me, ADN/BSN/MN/MSN whatever!!

I will say this...it disheartens me that some ADN (and notice that i say some) nurses take offense to BSNs that put down the ADN degree...I do agree that it is wrong, but what disheartens me is that in the same breath these ADN nurses make comments such as "id rather have an ADN nurse take care of me bc BSN nurses dont know what they are doing" or "ADN nurses make much better nurses bc they have more exposure to clinical time". I view this situation as a bit hipacritical (sp sorry?) NO ONE wants to feel like their education is being questioned!!! This also never helps the debate...seems to come back to the ol' two wrongs don't make a right..Why cant we all just be NURSES not ADNs and BSNs? We are all working toward the same goal are we not?? Anyway, I will always stand by my opinion that education is never wasted but I can not in good faith make the statement that certain degrees make better nurses..i can say however, that certain people make better nurses than others whether or not they are ADN or BSN!:)

2.)on unions...well, im not sure exactlly what a union does, but every time I interview for a job, the staff certainly makes belonging to a union sound like a plus..? Guess i'll figure that out when I get my first job:)

3.) on the ANA...well...we just learned about the ANA in class and the main thing I was "supposed" to take away from that discussion was that "the ANA advocates and protects the rights of nurses"...It is certainly interesting that I did not even question what I was being taught, before reading this post, I had no idea that people felt negatively about the ANA...goes to show ho\w much I still have to learn...sigh..:)

sorry guys....like I said it's been a grueling week and i'm lucky to remember my own name right now...so sorry for the rambling!

oh and I guess i'll stand up and introduce myself....

Erica, heterosexual but homosexual rights advocate, extrememly liberal (sociology/psychology major),voted for Kerry, pro choice but also prolife, pro education, pro nurses (all nurses!), student just trying to make it through the week!

BamaBound2bRN · Jun 18, 2005

It seems my last attempt at an apology got me warned again. So sorry to have offended. I guess I am the weakest link.....good bye.

MissPiggy · Jun 20, 2005

"-"Why should I support a group who basically thinks that that I am too underqualified and undereducated to be a good nurse?"

...telling 70% of RN's that we are holding down the 30% that are 'true professionals'

I'm sorry but I can't help but see it this way... as an ADN, BA, and about to be MA, I am taking my uneducated self out of the nursing field because of that exact attitude.

magicman · Jun 20, 2005

Could we please get away from the statement that the ANA is a "union". It is not, nor does it act as one. It is a PAC and a loose association just as the ENA or any other "association" is. It (the ANA) has no legal right to bargain for ANY nurses working anywhere in this country (that I know of), nor does it make any contracts with any hospital to bargain for their nursing employees.

AFA joining, dues is prohibitively high for the people working the front line of nursing to be given so little back for it. The powers that be in the ANA have their own political agenda that has very little to do with the nursing profession, and they (IMHO) are truly out of touch with what nursing is and does from a practical standpont. They deal more with the "theoretical framework" of nursing. And (again IMHO) they have made some poor choices in what they have spoken out in favor of.

Just my 2 cents.

RetiredMSN · Jun 20, 2005

ANA does a lot for the perception of profession of nursing, but I really don't see what they've done to improve the reality of nursing -- ...Follow, lead, or get out of the way -- and the ANA hasn't been a leader, and it's a mistake to blame "nurses" for not seeing another version of "reality." People know you by your work -- and that explains the reason most nurses don't believe that the ANA hasn't done anything for them. They say alot, but they haven't really done anything.

goingCoastal, as an ANA member, I feel I need to respond to your statements about ANA not doing anything for the nurses. The reality is that the few nurses who do finally join simply do not take an active role in the organization, for whatever reason, leaving the actual work of the organization to a few who are really concerned. It's a typical female-dominated occupational problem: lots of complaining, little to no cooperation, too much back-biting and criticism...in it for what they can get out of it, not for what they can contribute. If nurses would see that, no, the ANA & their SNA are not perfect, but it is the best going for us now, and join in the work of improving the profession, whether union or not, then you would see changes made. But not the way things are now. I would say to the inactive members as well..."lead or get out of the way." :coollook:

Tweety, BSN, RN · Jun 20, 2005

goingCoastal, as an ANA member, I feel I need to respond to your statements about ANA not doing anything for the nurses. The reality is that the few nurses who do finally join simply do not take an active role in the organization, for whatever reason, leaving the actual work of the organization to a few who are really concerned. It's a typical female-dominated occupational problem: lots of complaining, little to no cooperation, too much back-biting and criticism...in it for what they can get out of it, not for what they can contribute. If nurses would see that, no, the ANA & their SNA are not perfect, but it is the best going for us now, and join in the work of improving the profession, whether union or not, then you would see changes made. But not the way things are now. I would say to the inactive members as well..."lead or get out of the way."

I agree with your statements that the ANA is trying and indeed accomplishing some things and it's wrong to say "The ANA has done nothing for nurses.

I'm going to have to disagree with the nonproductive sexist view "It's a typical female-dominated occupational problem: lots of complaining, little to no cooperation, too much back-biting and criticism....."

BGSRN · Jun 21, 2005

I have gone from LPN to ADN to BSN and at each level I felt that I was an important member of the health care team. Patients need nurses and there is certainly room for everyone. I do have an issue with using UAP's in place of nurses but I think there is a real need for what was once called "nurses aides".

I disagree with the ANA's proclamation about BSN's being the end all. I am also part of the MNA (Mass Nurses Asso) which withdrew from the ANA a few years ago - a good move IMO!

fab4fan · Jun 21, 2005

goingCoastal, as an ANA member, I feel I need to respond to your statements about ANA not doing anything for the nurses. The reality is that the few nurses who do finally join simply do not take an active role in the organization, for whatever reason, leaving the actual work of the organization to a few who are really concerned. It's a typical female-dominated occupational problem: lots of complaining, little to no cooperation, too much back-biting and criticism...in it for what they can get out of it, not for what they can contribute. If nurses would see that, no, the ANA & their SNA are not perfect, but it is the best going for us now, and join in the work of improving the profession, whether union or not, then you would see changes made. But not the way things are now. I would say to the inactive members as well..."lead or get out of the way."

And I would have to say that as a former ANA member and officer when my employer was represented by my SNA, we got bupkis. I went to meeting after meeting, spent a lot of time with our SNA rep., and it was for nothing. When mgmt. violated our contract, the SNA basically threw its hands up and said, "What can we do?"

So, lots of $$ out of my paycheck to pay dues to ANA & SNA, zero representation, and the pleasure of reading in AJN that I am not a professional nurse because I don't have a BSN.

If that's the best they can do, I'd rather slog through on my own. I join the professional organizations that represent my specialty, but ANA is not getting dime one from me again. They are far more concerned with expanding the role of advanced practice nurses.

Perhaps more nurses would be inclined to join if they felt there was at least a little something in return, or at the very least, not be made to feel as if their nursing care is inferior because they are diploma/ADN grads. I don't need to pay $$$ to be insulted; I can do that on my own free, thank you.

chickdude1 · Jun 22, 2005

All right, guys--here's my experience.

When my ADN boss (and she was my CNA instructor) first found out that I had been accepted to the ND (nurse doctorate) program, her first reaction was "Oh, you're the guys who want to get rid of us."

Now, I don't give a hoot about WHAT degree you have--it's about WHO you are! There are several LPN's that I'm planning on hiring as my personal nurses when I make my first million (but don't hold your breath, guys....unfortunately), and there's people who hold masters and doctorates that I wouldn't let touch me with a TEN FOOT POLE!!!

I also think that the ANA's very public opinion is "cutting off its nose to spite its face." Hello.....did they NOT hear the words "nursing shortage??"

My two cents..... :)

NURSES--whatever your level of education--YOU ROCK!!!!

Chickdude1

I've been thinking about this lately; When we were in school, the head of program was very passionate about nurses joining the ANA-something like less than 5% of all nurses are members, and if we all joined "what a voice we would have" in politics and policy. I do plan to get to a BSN-eventually, maybe-but I am 42 with three teens and their college looming-so who knows? I really agree with this-we need to use our numbers for power. I understand that raising the level of education might raise the overall respect and pay-but most patients don't know what degree you have-they judge you by your care and outcomes. But, I also keep thinking-"Why should I support a group who basically thinks that that I am too underqualified and undereducated to be a good nurse?" Because all rhetoric about being pro-nurse aside, that's what they mean..
What do you think?

zenman · Jun 23, 2005

1.) For the entry level into practice: I do believe that more education makes you a better a critical thinker but do I think that a BSN over an ADN makes you a better nurse? well i dont know, i think that that depends on the individual. Im a HUGE supporter of education BUT I do not necc. think that a pathophys class here and a prof roles and issue class there neccesarily makes you a better nurse per se....

In your first sentence you mention critical thinking skills yet in your last sentence, you showed a lack of applying such skills. Sigh.