Always the Instructor's Fault......

futurecnm18 · May 23, 2015

I am a new grad and rarely ever comment on topics like this but I felt compelled to. Sometimes it is the instructors fault. I worked 2 jobs, one full time and one part time while I was in nursing school and I did well until I had a professor who refused to provide blue prints for exams, notes for her lectures, go over exams once they were administered or lecture for that matter. We spent the mandatory classroom hours listening to her anecdotes about her childhood and were forced to learn everything on our own at home. Half her class failed from the previous semester and the semester after ours she was forced to leave classroom lectures and was only retained as a clinical professor but our semester was not given the same opportunity.

I agree that sometimes students aren't willing to put in the work but for my class who was made up of adult students with families who were working full time, to spend our classroom hours listening to stories about the beach = a bad professor.

windsurfer8, BSN, RN · May 23, 2015

When you discuss this professor you are blaming "it is the instructors fault" what did you do to deal with your concerns? In the real world working as an RN you will work with many challenging people...Doctors, fellow nurses, NPs, Case Managers, etc.

The key is learning to successfuly navigate the situation to provide good care to your patients. NO ONE wants to hear you say "it is the doctors fault" or "it was the other nurses fault". Learn how to succeed no matter who the instructor is or who the co worker is. Waiting for the perfect scenario will lead you to a life of blaming others and that is not where anyone wants to be.

futurecnm18 · May 23, 2015

Well, I asked to meet with the professor to discuss our issues and she wouldn't meet with me and became defensive. I asked to set up an appointment with the chair of the department afterwards who refused to respond to emails or phone calls. I attempted to meet with the president of the university which also did not happen. My classmates wrote a letter and we all signed it detailing our grievances and sent it to the chair which again was met with silence. So we eventually just had to deal with the problem, which meant paying for outside resources to learn the material that we were paying for to learn in class.

The professor was terrible, the school was terrible. My classmates and I were not waiting for a perfect scenario. This is my second degree so I know how the real world works and how a good education is supposed to work. I am not naive or an idiot but some people are not meant to be professors. I am not making a general statement about all professors but I am saying that some are terrible just like some students aren't willing to do the work.

Lets stop saying its one or the other and just admit that the fault lies on both sides.

meanmaryjean, DNP, RN · May 23, 2015

Futurecnm18 - I would agree that there ARE incompetent faculty out there. There certainly are bad programs- you seem to have experienced that in person. BUT-when you read the boards here, there is a certain attitude among many student 'rant' posters that content should be spoon fed. And this attitude is pervasive among this sub-set of student 'rant' poster. Very little personal sense of responsibility.

I promise you, everyone has experienced a less-than-stellar faculty member at times. But honestly, if you are provided a syllabus and a book, you CAN overcome it. Have to do more work than you think is reasonable? DO IT! Feel like you're left to learn it all on your own? DO IT!

Purple_roses · May 23, 2015

Oh, don't leave! You should stay and give us a different perspective.

P.S.--There are instructors on here who don't let students wallow in self-pity.

nurseprnRN, BSN, RN · May 23, 2015

Sounds like they did remove her from didactic instruction, which is what your complaint addresses. Good.

Although I completely agree about lecturers who don't address the topics at hand, I am surprised at the slight tone of entitlement in the first post. Note, I said "slight," so take a deep breath and wait a minute.

I never once had a professor in any of my four years in college give out blueprint for exams or lecture notes, much less PowerPoint decks. We got the syllabus with the topics for each week on orientation day. We were expected to come prepared to college knowing how to take notes from a lecturer, and how to go to a library to supplement our reading.

We never had pre-exam review sessions, because we were supposed to learn it the first time around and supplement with our own reading, and ask faculty for help prn as adult individuals who recognized our own need for it. We never had general reviews of the exams after the fact, but one could use one's own initiative to contact faculty to go over an exam prn on the same basis.

I must say that when I was a faculty member, I always offered pre-exam open help sessions, which were sporificely attended, and (surprise!) mostly by the better students. Chicken-or-egg here, perhaps-- but they all told their classmates that it would be a good idea to come and get things clarified prn. The ones that didn't and did poorly were all over me for not being helpful enough. I gave out my home phone number and told them I would be happy to make appts to see them at mutually agreeable times, and how many do you think took me up on it? (not more than... one.)

You can be the judge of whether they did what they could to help themselves. This is adult education, nu?

A large part of education is not on the instructor-- we are not here to pry open your crania and pour things into it. If you want to pursue a professional course of study, please come prepared to put in more effort, or into learning how to do it, before you start blaming the instructors.

Remember, we have been nurses, and you haven't. We have had the experience of being students, and you aren't done with that yet. We have, as the OP mentions, taken up the poorly-paid (or hey! Unpaid!!) task of doing our best to bring along the next generation of you into our beloved profession, and know it's not for personal gain. Well, except that when we're old we want to be sure that the nurses taking care of us have learned how to be life-long learners so they can care for us safely.

Most of us do a good job of it; some are better than others, and part of being a member of a profession is speaking up about poor practitioners. Sounds like at least one group of students was able to accomplish this; that took more maturity than we see around here much. Good on ya.

We'll see how you all feel about this issue when you are on the other side of the lectern. :) We remember what it was like to be you. You have a ways to go before you know what it's like to be us.

morte, LPN, LVN · May 23, 2015

do you always blame the victim?

When you discuss this professor you are blaming "it is the instructors fault" what did you do to deal with your concerns? In the real world working as an RN you will work with many challenging people...Doctors, fellow nurses, NPs, Case Managers, etc.
The key is learning to successfuly navigate the situation to provide good care to your patients. NO ONE wants to hear you say "it is the doctors fault" or "it was the other nurses fault". Learn how to succeed no matter who the instructor is or who the co worker is. Waiting for the perfect scenario will lead you to a life of blaming others and that is not where anyone wants to be.

morte, LPN, LVN · May 23, 2015

Green, did you miss the part where the prof DIDN''rT lecture? told personal stories in class?[

Sounds like they did remove her from didactic instruction, which is what your complaint addresses. Good.

Although I completely agree about lecturers who don't address the topics at hand, I am surprised at the slight tone of entitlement in the first post. Note, I said "slight," so take a deep breath and wait a minute.

I never once had a professor in any of my four years in college give out blueprint for exams or lecture notes, much less PowerPoint decks. We got the syllabus with the topics for each week on orientation day. We were expected to come prepared to college knowing how to take notes from a lecturer, and how to go to a library to supplement our reading.

We never had pre-exam review sessions, because we were supposed to learn it the first time around and supplement with our own reading, and ask faculty for help prn as adult individuals who recognized our own need for it. We never had general reviews of the exams after the fact, but one could use one's own initiative to contact faculty to go over an exam prn on the same basis.

I must say that when I was a faculty member, I always offered pre-exam open help sessions, which were sporificely attended, and (surprise!) mostly by the better students. Chicken-or-egg here, perhaps-- but they all told their classmates that it would be a good idea to come and get things clarified prn. The ones that didn't and did poorly were all over me for not being helpful enough. I gave out my home phone number and told them I would be happy to make appts to see them at mutually agreeable times, and how many do you think took me up on it? (not more than... one.)

You can be the judge of whether they did what they could to help themselves. This is adult education, nu?

A large part of education is not on the instructor-- we are not here to pry open your crania and pour things into it. If you want to pursue a professional course of study, please come prepared to put in more effort, or into learning how to do it, before you start blaming the instructors.

Remember, we have been nurses, and you haven't. We have had the experience of being students, and you aren't done with that yet. We have, as the OP mentions, taken up the poorly-paid (or hey! Unpaid!!) task of doing our best to bring along the next generation of you into our beloved profession, and know it's not for personal gain. Well, except that when we're old we want to be sure that the nurses taking care of us have learned how to be life-long learners so they can care for us safely.

Most of us do a good job of it; some are better than others, and part of being a member of a profession is speaking up about poor practitioners. Sounds like at least one group of students was able to accomplish this; that took more maturity than we see around here much. Good on ya.

We'll see how you all feel about this issue when you are on the other side of the lectern. :) We remember what it was like to be you. You have a ways to go before you know what it's like to be us.

morte, LPN, LVN · May 23, 2015

OP, if you don't try to convince me the instructor is never at fault, i will return the favor.

Purple_roses · May 23, 2015

Green, did you miss the part where the prof DIDN''rT lecture? told personal stories in class?[

Did you read the part where Green addressed every other concern?

canigraduate · May 23, 2015

I am amazed at the amount of hand holding students expect in nursing school. During my first go-round at college, it was sink or swim. You either learned the content, or you failed. You had one academic advisor to talk to. The professors had a couple hundred students and few office hours. I think I spoke to one professor one time. It was flatly stated during orientation that they expected most of the freshman class to fail because they couldn't handle the transition from high school to college, and that your advancement depended entirely on yourself and your determination.

There were no blueprints, no notes, no post-exam dissections. You got a syllabus and a textbook. If you wanted lecture notes, you showed up to class and wrote them down.

If you sucked at being a student, you were expected to talk to your advisor and figure out your problems. There was no "poor baby" by the professor, ever. You were expected to know that you were struggling and find the appropriate resources, on your own. They provided you with Student Services and a bulletin board that had different tutors posted.

When I was in nursing school, I was amazed by how much the instructors actually cared if I passed. They gave us PowerPoint handouts. They told us which content in the texts was covered on the exams. They let us record lectures and share them. They offered study pointers. There was even an optional class to sign up for that taught NCLEX question mastery and study skills. They had a review the class before exams, and went over the exam after we took it. It was like being cradled by warmth and light.

You really had to try hard to fail at my nursing school, and yet half the class did by the time we graduated.

I don't think our fail rate was a reflection on the school or the instructors, at all. It was a hard program and a lot of students didn't put in the effort.

I really think the problem stems from a dichotomy of attitudes, plus some students and some instructors (very few) suck.