I had very lax parents myself. I can remember being spanked once in my entire life. I got grounded a few times once I reached high school and for good reasons, but other than that I didn't really receive discipline much from my parents. My husbands family on the other hand is in favor of spanking; at one point I though I was too but am now against it...but still have to stifle laughs when I hear a parent say, "use your words" to a kid throwing a tantrum; maybe because I am yet to see this work.
I am in Community Nursing this semester. The placement I am at has a brochure on why you should not spank. The brochure was very informative on why you should not spank but it lacked any information on alternative ways to correct behavior/discipline. I chose not to had this out because I felt the information was not complete. Not being a parent yet myself, I did not feel equip to give alternatives if asked once the brochure was read and the client found that no alternatives were included.
What you have to be kidding me? Why are you using quotes from the bible,some people in this thread may go by old or new testament,some maybe be Yehovas Witnesses,and some may be atheist or even christians who dont necessary go by every word in the bible.It is not polite to enforce your own religion on other people.With that said I'm catholic however some of the scripts have to be taken with the grain of salt because sometimes it is hard to fit those teachings/guidance into the "real world"For instance just because the bible say offer your left cheek to someone who hit you in your right cheek,you think I would do it....oh no,just because the bible say do not use contraceptives,do not live with the man before you get married,you think I would do it,no,do you get my point....???
I couldn't have put it better myself! Well done! Bravo!
Well it could be more spanking or in my house it usually means more time in the corner.
Is it abusive? Maybe in the eyes some parents who have no appetite to win against their children's defiance.
Anyways my philosophy is let liberals who want to "negotiate" with their three year olds do just that.
I just hope they let me use my "outdated" Bible. I find its priciples to be
rather fine in raising my children.....
My question is regarding giving children a time limit to cry after receiving a spanking. When I spanked, the kids were free to cry for as long as they wanted, in privacy.
Not knowing Dr Dobson, I question his wisdom regarding limiting the crying.
Is there more to it than I am reading? Or is this truly his recommendation?
Specializes in Mental Health, footcare, geriatrics.
My question is regarding giving children a time limit to cry after receiving a spanking. When I spanked, the kids were free to cry for as long as they wanted, in privacy.
Not knowing Dr Dobson, I question his wisdom regarding limiting the crying.
Is there more to it than I am reading? Or is this truly his recommendation?
Again, thank you for responding.
I guess if you really want to know Dr. Dobson you should read his book "Dare to Discipline." Of course Wikipedia is hardly exhaustive on Dr Dobson's work. Wiki when doing bios on religious conservatives tend to grab one or two of the more controversial quotes and when put in their bio without context it can look scary. My self I have listened to Dr Dobson's Focus on the Family radio program for many years and I have a number of his books. I don't believe he has made a fatwa "you must spank you kid if he cries more than 5 minutes." Dobson is a social conservative and a Christian. I believe most of his detractors would concede he is a man who is not without intellegence. The White House and Congress has felt him credible enough to give him an audience in the past.
My self when my kids cried excessively and I felt the crying was a form of trying to exert power over my self or the mom, I threw them in the corner and told them they can come out when they "get over it." I suspect Dr. Dobson would have been quite happy with my approach. Many parents have many different approaches. What is important to Dr Dobson I believe; is that parents don't relinquish control to children during confrontations. This in his view is harmful to the children in the long run as weak parents inadvertently contribute to their childrens lack of respect for authority (teachers, employers, etc....) later on in life.
Anyways rather than listening to me maybe you can get it right from the horses' mouth......
I must say I think he is a great man and one I look up to. No one is perfect but I think he has done a better job than I with his family and I see him as an inspiration and a man to emulate. Watever I have learned from him, I think I am better for it.......:wink2:
I had very lax parents myself. I can remember being spanked once in my entire life. I got grounded a few times once I reached high school and for good reasons, but other than that I didn't really receive discipline much from my parents. My husbands family on the other hand is in favor of spanking; at one point I though I was too but am now against it...but still have to stifle laughs when I hear a parent say, "use your words" to a kid throwing a tantrum; maybe because I am yet to see this work.
I am in Community Nursing this semester. The placement I am at has a brochure on why you should not spank. The brochure was very informative on why you should not spank but it lacked any information on alternative ways to correct behavior/discipline. I chose not to had this out because I felt the information was not complete. Not being a parent yet myself, I did not feel equip to give alternatives if asked once the brochure was read and the client found that no alternatives were included.
Suggestions would be appreciated.
My thoughts: Not spanking does not equal "lax" or "permissive". One can be firm, fair, and consistent, without using physical punishment. Additionally, child rearing is a long term endeavor. While spanking a child might halt a behavior immediately and in the presence of the parent who spanks, there is evidence that it is not effective in teaching appropriate behavior long term and/or outside of the immediate influence of the spanker. Also, if you rely upon corporal punishment to influence your child's behavior, what happens when the child is too big to spank?
As far as alternatives, there is an abundance of information out there on parenting without using spanking. You could have simply done a little research, then directed anyone with questions toward those resources you identified.
You should also teach your children that hitting is NOT always bad.
Next time I see a crime go down I'll just stand still because hitting is bad.
Like my father always said. 'Never start the fight. Always end it.'
Using physical force in self defense is not equivalent to spanking a child.
Spanking a child sends the message that power and control in a relationship is maintained through the use of physical force and fear of punishment. It wasn't too long ago that husbands were allowed to use corporal punishment on their wives (and this still happens in some parts of the world).
This is a very interesting topic. I live in a country where it is ILLEGAL to spank your child and doing so and being caught would result in jail time. The idea of the act was to stop child abuse but we all knew that this wasnt going to stop those who were hitting their children with force. And in fact there have been two high profile child abuse cases in the past week where the child was subjected to horrendous abuse both physically and mentally and died as a result of injuries recieved. So what do you do when your child is screaming the place down in the middle of the supermarket? Tie them to the trolley and put your earmuffs on (only joking) Enabling your child to understand that there are consequnces for good behaviour rather than bad behaviour allows them to make choices. For example giving them a ride on the rideon toy at the end of the supermarket ride for GOOD behaviour. You dont have to do this every time you go out but maybe there are other things that you could do to promote good behaviour, a picnic, kite flying. I had a star chart for good behaviour and when the chart was full we would go out and do something fun. I know it sounds like hard work but believe me it works. Our children are now in their 20's and are great kids with good morals and a sense of whats right. And my husband and I are allowed to pat ourselves on the back for a job well done and hope that when we become granparents our children will bring them up with the understanding that being good is normal behaviour. Bringing up children can be hard work but more than that its about having fun and remember children learn from what they see... in other words you must choose your words to each other carefully and to those around you.. keep your voice down and be civil.
I must disagree. I believe there is no such thing as "healthy" fear of a person. Mothers fathers are meant to be nurturers, comforters, and role models.
One can fear illness, hurricaines, tornadoes, earthquakes, and global warming, as things that can be anticipated by preparing for the worst.
How does a child prepare for the worst in a parent? They aren't, by their nature perfect. Nor are parents, who need to know when to sit on their hands.
The greatest gift one can receive/give, is love without fear, (think "Love is never having to say I'm sorry", a great oldie movie) and then pass it along. Wars have been won by our allies along with us, wherein we kill and bomb away at grievous countries - and afterward we spend loads of money getting them on their feet again (which is another way of expressing our guilt for causing misery and then proving our worth, strength, etc.) Those countries have been known to tell us, "You won the war, but we won the peace". How about them apples?
When disciplining children, how about building on their strengths, rather thasn cutting them down?
When I taughty parenting classes, I told the participants that no one looks at a newborn baby and says to themselves or aloud, "Now how can I screw up this child?" This how it happens......
Nurse4years wrote:
"When I won- they won, if I lost-they lost. They were my children- their futures and their happiness depended on my winning those important battles!"
The meaning I decifer in that post, is that she and her children were on the same team, playing a game wherein she physically hurt her team members! How can anyone's happiness hinge on being on the side of the enemy? The dichotomy is in believing that by hitting a child you are doing something good for them. Ask any kid right after they're spanked, if they ally themselves with their perpetrator. Look at that word, and add an i after the a, and that's what that is............traitorous behaviour meted out in the name of love.
I don't know many parents who don't suffer self loathing after intentionally hurting their children physically, and the denial of that creates the behavior again and again, trying to make it right or better, when iy clearly isn't working (the same situation comes up again and again, possibly worsening.
It doesn't work in the sense that children learn something that will save them future misery. What it does, is influence their ability to trust anyone worthy of their trust, especially when they come on as a loving person and then hurt them. People pay psychologists immense amounts of money if they have it, to work out that contradiction, so they can trust someone.
In the USA we have terrible distrust - of "the system", government, now banks and even believing their job/house/food, etc. will be there next week.
Marriages don't work well without trust, parents and kids have problems without it, and those working with/for those they distrust have plenty of issues. So please, please, keep those darling little faces trusting, loving and kind by mirroring that for them; and be intelligent enough - (you can do it!), to take the time to figure out what action would countervene the behavior that you see as negative, and let it fit the "crime". That means that your time in preparation for "the worst" behavior, needs to be spent getting ammunition, other than the strength in your hands, arms, or belt. If the misbehavior involves distructiveness - breaking, painting, hitting things/people, then whatever has been used to do that must be taken away, and the child told that his/her behavior warrants that action, and because you love him/her, you don't want it to happen again, because others don't like those who do that kind of thing. You'll know when to say that, probably after a lot of screaming ensued and the appropriate length of time out (a minute for each year of the child's age).
When you feel confident, calm and positive, think of all the things your child does that bugs you and makes you want to strike him/her, and write them in the left - or right column on a large piece of paper. Do that when you know you won't be interupted. Then carefully look at what the child is telling you, by those acts, which could be, "I'll do what I want" (control issues). Write the most appropriate action you could take, beside that behavior and in your mind, work out a scenario wherein everyone wins. When you use the same discipline for comntrol issues as you would when their dirty shoes track mud on the floor, you can't win, as kids see inappropriateness clearly - that's why they fuss and make you miserable, to get their power and trust back. Obviously having them clean up after themselves to the best of their ability is best, but they have to regain their personal power without feeling humiliated, to do that. That can't happen until the feelings have been vented and you reassure them of your love. You just don't like mud on the floor, but you like them. To support them in getting their power back, let them decide what they'll use to clean up the mess...paper towels? soap? water (not too much), and praise their efforts. Now you're on the same team accomplishing the same goal.
That sure took longer than a swift whack, and good judgement takes a while to determine what to do. The results, that is, a child who feels secure, loved, and takes responsibility for their actions is worth whatever it takes. Do you really prefer the cowering, fearful, wretched kid who realizes they're guilty and must pay a price for their misdeed, without learning anything about correcting their wrong?
One of the most brilliant psychologists of the last century, Dr. Eric Berne wrote a wonderful book, "Games people play". It may be at your library. I like the explanations he gives far better than James Dobson's.
Well, the game playing provides an outlet, but the goals get confused when mixed messages are given.
I must disagree. I believe there is no such thing as "healthy" fear of a person. Mothers fathers are meant to be nurturers, comforters, and role models.
Who told you that nonsense. ROFL.
The sole purpose of parents is to teach their children so that they can survive.
SURVIVE.
Nurturers and comforters.
LOL
Spanking in no way diminishes that trust.
Has anyone noticed the correlation between the rise of all this happy, no touching silliness AND the decline of American youth...
"I hope you aren't inventing stories to discredit Dr. James Dobson just because you don't like the positions he takes on certain moral issues???:nono:" quote
Now why would anyone do that? I would never cast aspersion on someone because I disagreed with him/her!
I'm glad that Dr. Dobson's sons have succeeded in their adult lives, and thank you for bringing that to my attention. I do give credit for that result, to their mother, although the methods they employ hark of their father.
Suffice it to say that I like her better than her husband. She ran a great preschool, which benefited my children greatly, without his theories as part of it (she said). My offspring are now 42 and 36 years of age, and have made a success of their lives, too.
I must disagree. I believe there is no such thing as "healthy" fear of a person. Mothers fathers are meant to be nurturers, comforters, and role models.
One can fear illness, hurricaines, tornadoes, earthquakes, and global warming, as things that can be anticipated by preparing for the worst.
How does a child prepare for the worst in a parent? They aren't, by their nature perfect. Nor are parents, who need to know when to sit on their hands.
The greatest gift one can receive/give, is love without fear, (think "Love is never having to say I'm sorry", a great oldie movie) and then pass it along. Wars have been won by our allies along with us, wherein we kill and bomb away at grievous countries - and afterward we spend loads of money getting them on their feet again (which is another way of expressing our guilt for causing misery and then proving our worth, strength, etc.) Those countries have been known to tell us, "You won the war, but we won the peace". How about them apples?
When disciplining children, how about building on their strengths, rather thasn cutting them down?
When I taughty parenting classes, I told the participants that no one looks at a newborn baby and says to themselves or aloud, "Now how can I screw up this child?" This how it happens......
Nurse4years wrote:
"When I won- they won, if I lost-they lost. They were my children- their futures and their happiness depended on my winning those important battles!"
The meaning I decifer in that post, is that she and her children were on the same team, playing a game wherein she physically hurt her team members! How can anyone's happiness hinge on being on the side of the enemy? The dichotomy is in believing that by hitting a child you are doing something good for them. Ask any kid right after they're spanked, if they ally themselves with their perpetrator. Look at that word, and add an i after the a, and that's what that is............traitorous behaviour meted out in the name of love.
I don't know many parents who don't suffer self loathing after intentionally hurting their children physically, and the denial of that creates the behavior again and again, trying to make it right or better, when iy clearly isn't working (the same situation comes up again and again, possibly worsening.
It doesn't work in the sense that children learn something that will save them future misery. What it does, is influence their ability to trust anyone worthy of their trust, especially when they come on as a loving person and then hurt them. People pay psychologists immense amounts of money if they have it, to work out that contradiction, so they can trust someone.
In the USA we have terrible distrust - of "the system", government, now banks and even believing their job/house/food, etc. will be there next week.
Marriages don't work well without trust, parents and kids have problems without it, and those working with/for those they distrust have plenty of issues. So please, please, keep those darling little faces trusting, loving and kind by mirroring that for them; and be intelligent enough - (you can do it!), to take the time to figure out what action would countervene the behavior that you see as negative, and let it fit the "crime". That means that your time in preparation for "the worst" behavior, needs to be spent getting ammunition, other than the strength in your hands, arms, or belt. If the misbehavior involves distructiveness - breaking, painting, hitting things/people, then whatever has been used to do that must be taken away, and the child told that his/her behavior warrants that action, and because you love him/her, you don't want it to happen again, because others don't like those who do that kind of thing. You'll know when to say that, probably after a lot of screaming ensued and the appropriate length of time out (a minute for each year of the child's age).
When you feel confident, calm and positive, think of all the things your child does that bugs you and makes you want to strike him/her, and write them in the left - or right column on a large piece of paper. Do that when you know you won't be interupted. Then carefully look at what the child is telling you, by those acts, which could be, "I'll do what I want" (control issues). Write the most appropriate action you could take, beside that behavior and in your mind, work out a scenario wherein everyone wins. When you use the same discipline for comntrol issues as you would when their dirty shoes track mud on the floor, you can't win, as kids see inappropriateness clearly - that's why they fuss and make you miserable, to get their power and trust back. Obviously having them clean up after themselves to the best of their ability is best, but they have to regain their personal power without feeling humiliated, to do that. That can't happen until the feelings have been vented and you reassure them of your love. You just don't like mud on the floor, but you like them. To support them in getting their power back, let them decide what they'll use to clean up the mess...paper towels? soap? water (not too much), and praise their efforts. Now you're on the same team accomplishing the same goal.
That sure took longer than a swift whack, and good judgement takes a while to determine what to do. The results, that is, a child who feels secure, loved, and takes responsibility for their actions is worth whatever it takes. Do you really prefer the cowering, fearful, wretched kid who realizes they're guilty and must pay a price for their misdeed, without learning anything about correcting their wrong?
One of the most brilliant psychologists of the last century, Dr. Eric Berne wrote a wonderful book, "Games people play". It may be at your library. I like the explanations he gives far better than James Dobson's.
Well, the game playing provides an outlet, but the goals get confused when mixed messages are given.
"Love without fear"?
W:chuckleW
Now that one cracked me up!
Games people play.
W:confused:W
I think she meant that sometimes you must twist a mind rather than let a child lose.
IE. " Oh wow Cindy, you got a D on your report card. Way to go. You really used your thinker on that one". Reverse psychology, ya know.
And I understood her meaning. If I lose as the parent then my child loses. He/she learns the wrong lessons.
I'm his mother. Yes. I nurture. And I discipline. And my son knows when I count to three he's about to get it. That's a healthy fear.
Of course, my son is incredibly bright. Most high functioning autistic children are. So I don't know how to handle average intelligence children. I've only ever been around exceptionally gifted children. Maybe there is a difference in how to discipline them?
And as far as " asking a child" how he/she feels after being spanked is at best, laughable.
They feel miserable. That's how they should feel. That prevents them from repeating that behavior.
It is obvious that you have really thought a great deal about child rearing, and it is wonderful that your children are successful. (I am assuming that by successful you mean happy, and not referring to materialism.)
However, do you really believe that people who have a different method of child rearing have not raised successful children? You and your methods are the only proper, successful way to raise children?
ECKPowers
66 Posts
I couldn't have put it better myself! Well done! Bravo!