I had very lax parents myself. I can remember being spanked once in my entire life. I got grounded a few times once I reached high school and for good reasons, but other than that I didn't really receive discipline much from my parents. My husbands family on the other hand is in favor of spanking; at one point I though I was too but am now against it...but still have to stifle laughs when I hear a parent say, "use your words" to a kid throwing a tantrum; maybe because I am yet to see this work.
I am in Community Nursing this semester. The placement I am at has a brochure on why you should not spank. The brochure was very informative on why you should not spank but it lacked any information on alternative ways to correct behavior/discipline. I chose not to had this out because I felt the information was not complete. Not being a parent yet myself, I did not feel equip to give alternatives if asked once the brochure was read and the client found that no alternatives were included.
I was spanked with love. I threatened to call the police on my mother for spanking me. She informed me that " You have to get to the phone first". And also " Go ahead and try to find a foster home as good as your own". I don't believe in spankings for all infractions. I believe in correcting negative behavior. I don't believe in calling a child " bad". That really steams me. But if I feel my child is in need of a spanking, I will spank. My husband is a police officer, and it's entirely legal to spank on the bottom. He and I also feel that if more parents spanked or disciplined their children the crime rate wouldn't be so high. :)
Uh, no! Spanking is not demonstrating love, it's demonstrating frustration, anger and lack of any intelligent reaction! Foster homes as a threat is carrying an issue too far. First of all you really have to discuss with a kid who thinks a foster home would be dandy, what they would like about that and let them know that you'd miss them terribly; and they'd be taking a space that some child who really needs to be there due to worse problems (please don't describe abuse) might have. Do tell your child that you're sure you can work things out together. (We've all heard about dreadful foster placements, and as wonderful as it may sound to have a week or so to chill, it wouldn't do anyone any good, especially a child who would then learn to absent themselves when family pressure is uncomfortable).
Police officers know that they can't react aggressively except for self protection (we've all seen sordid scenes on TV when peace officers were anything but that. Most of them loathe those situations, and must act expediantly lest situations accelerate. With children, it's important to prevent self destructive behavior, and then the crime rate would be less due to better self control.
Unfortunately kids don't come with instructions and we need education for each phase of their lives, as our parents usually reacted reflexively which is why we think spanking is the answer. It never is, unless you want to raise someone who resolves issues by hurting others. Self respect comes from seeing role models who respect themselves too much to lower themselves to the level a child is when they misbehave. You can't respect yourself when you act out aggressively with someone very much smaller who needs you to really know best.
"Fathers, do not exasperate your children; instead, bring them up in the training and instruction of the Lord." And Colossians 3:21 tells us, "Fathers, do not embitter your children, or they will become discouraged."
The Bible is quoted on another page, which I can't track now, which disagrees with the above.
My reaction whenever quotations from the Bible are used, is that the time warp that existed in the time it was written, is quite different than our world. What I want to imply, is that sources need checking.
I knew Dr. James Dobson and his family,who he divorced. He was seldom at home, as he was out giving talks about parenting. He's quite an eccentric whose personal relationships have been very superficial.
My children went to La Primera, a preschool which he started in Torrance, CA with his wife. His principles were impossible to put into practise as they sounded OK but really weren't.
Oh . . and I forgot . . . why punish a child for running in the house? I do not understand that at all.
Steph, I would give a million dollars to hear my child being able to run through the house. His legs are too contracted to walk. I'm with you 100% on that.
I do not spank/hit/slap my children. I never, ever want my children to be afraid of me.
Although my 16-year-old definitely tries my patience at times!
As young as 4 years old, I remember having to go to school with purple belt marks on my legs and thighs. I am not kidding, my parents were animals...but I fought hard and now I'm a nurse.
My children were spanked out of love. They are 3 wonderful women now, strong, caring and loving. We laugh alot about some of the things they did, and lots that they got away with.
I did want them to have a healthy fear of their Mom, but a greater fear of the general 'wrath of Mom' than of spankings.
When it came to adult/child battles- I won, always-
When I won- they won, if I lost-they lost. They were my children- their futures and their happiness depended on my winning those important battles!!
They were also all very intelligent, and most of the discipline was verbal or mental, so spanking had a shock value that occasionally set them back on the straight and narrow!
It was so much fun raising them. I still try to raise them, even though they are adults- but a simple reminder from them regarding nursing home placement is enough to shut me down.
I was spanked with love. I threatened to call the police on my mother for spanking me. She informed me that " You have to get to the phone first". And also " Go ahead and try to find a foster home as good as your own". I don't believe in spankings for all infractions. I believe in correcting negative behavior. I don't believe in calling a child " bad". That really steams me. But if I feel my child is in need of a spanking, I will spank. My husband is a police officer, and it's entirely legal to spank on the bottom. He and I also feel that if more parents spanked or disciplined their children the crime rate wouldn't be so high. :)
!!! Love it!!! What a great sense of humor.
My own mother has interview elders for years, and one man told her how he disciplined his children. He said you had to know what type of discipline worked for each child, and the only thing that worked for one of his sons was to tie him to a tree.
(Not condoning it- just passing on the story- apparently he found this to be an alternative to spanking).
Although I did tie my oldest girls together at the waist one day- back to back. They were constantly arguing, so I lightly tied a large belt around them and gave them a list of chores. They found it fun for about the first 15 minutes, then they had to work together to get the chores done. It worked.
In my humble opinion, spanking can be a necesarry form of punishment. For instance, I have a child that doesn't always understand or remember " no-no's". But if I spank his bottom when he goes into the road (this is a for instance), he remembers it. Sometimes you need to spank for shock value. It's more humiliation and shock than pain.
There are times I think we have become so " Politically Correct" and focus on therapy and " feelings ", that we forget that it's possible to raise children without those things. George Washington, Marie Curie, Harriet Tubman etc. All were spanked, and all became amazing adults who helped the entire world.
Growing up, I knew my mother would bust my butt if I did certain things. So guess what, I didn't do those things. If I sassed or smart mouthed my mother, I knew that it was very likely I'd be picking my teeth up off the floor. Not because she was " angry " or " didn't love me", it was because she did love me and wanted me to learn how to respect others. And children need to have a certain amount of fear of their parents.
We are speaking of spankings, not beatings. I would never condone beating a child. In this state a smack on the behind with the palm of your hand is totally legally acceptable. And I spank my child in public if I need too.
I didn't become a " hitter ". I didn't start smacking other people.
Scripture is never a good idea to use in a healthy debate. There's not only a seperation of church and state, many people, such as I , do not care what a book says.
I thank you for voicing another opinion, I always love to hear what others think:)
Specializes in Mental Health, footcare, geriatrics.
"fathers, do not exasperate your children; instead, bring them up in the training and instruction of the lord." and colossians 3:21 tells us, "fathers, do not embitter your children, or they will become discouraged."
the bible is quoted on another page, which i can't track now, which disagrees with the above.
my reaction whenever quotations from the bible are used, is that the time warp that existed in the time it was written, is quite different than our world. what i want to imply, is that sources need checking.
i knew dr. james dobson and his family,who he divorced. he was seldom at home, as he was out giving talks about parenting. he's quite an eccentric whose personal relationships have been very superficial.
my children went to la primera, a preschool which he started in torrance, ca with his wife. his principles were impossible to put into practise as they sounded ok but really weren't.
i hope you aren't inventing stories to discredit dr. james dobson just because you don't like the positions he takes on certain moral issues???
i have been a supporter of his ministry for almost two decades and never heard about him getting divorced.
anways i went through a few bios on him just to investigate your allegation including wikipedia which is no friend of conservative evangelicals and found no such info.
here is what wiki says about dr dobson's family life:
"after their august 26, 1960 marriage, dobson and his wife shirley have two children, danae and ryan. ryan dobson, who graduated from biola university in la mirada, california, is a public speaker in his own right, speaking on issues relating to youth, the philosophical belief in ontological truth, and the pro-life movement. ryan dobson was adopted by the dobsons and is an ardent supporter of adoption, especially adoption of troubled children. he runs http://www.ryandobson.com/, also known as kor ministries, where he has hosted a podcast since 2005."
it says dr. dobson and his wife adopted a child and says nothing about him getting a divorce.
as for his principles, millions of parents the world over put them into practice including his views on corporal discipline and they worked rather fine for me.
this is what dr dobson says about spanking:
"in his book dare to discipline, dobson advocated the [color=#002bb8]spanking of children of up to eight years old when they misbehave, but warns that "corporal punishment should not be a frequent occurrence" and that "discipline must not be harsh and destructive to the child's spirit." he warns against "harsh spanking" because he thinks "it is not necessary to beat the child into submission; a little bit of pain goes a long way for a young child. however, the spanking should be of sufficient magnitude to cause the child to cry genuinely."[color=#002bb8][33]
dobson has called disciplining children to be a necessary but unpleasant part of raising children that should only be carried out by qualified parents: "anyone who has ever [color=#002bb8]abused a child — or has ever felt himself losing control during a spanking — should not expose the child to that tragedy. anyone who has a violent temper that at times becomes unmanageable should not use that approach. anyone who secretly 'enjoys' the administration of corporal punishment should not be the one to implement it."[color=#002bb8][34]
in his book the strong-willed child, dobson suggests that if authority is portrayed correctly to a child, the child will understand how to interact with other authority figures: "by learning to yield to the loving authority... of his parents, a child learns to submit to other forms of authority which will confront him later in his life—his teachers, school principal, police, neighbors and employers."[color=#002bb8][35]
dobson stresses that parents must uphold their authority and do so consistently, comparing the relationship between parents and disobedient children to a battle: "when you are defiantly challenged, win decisively."[color=#002bb8][33] in the strong-willed child, dobson draws an analogy between the defiance of a family pet and that of a small child, and concludes that "just as surely as a dog will occasionally challenge the authority of his leaders, so will a little child — only more so."[color=#002bb8][33] (emphasis in original)
when asked "how long do you think a child should be allowed to cry after being punished? is there a limit?" dobson responded:
"yes, i believe there should be a limit. as long as the tears represent a genuine release of emotion, they should be permitted to fall. but crying quickly changes from inner sobbing to an expression of protest... real crying usually lasts two minutes or less but may continue for five. after that point, the child is merely complaining, and the change can be recognized in the tone and intensity of his voice. i would require him to stop the protest crying, usually by offering him a little more of whatever caused the original tears. in younger children, crying can easily be stopped by getting them interested in something else."
dr dobson makes sense to me. folks who call spanking "hitting" and claims it ruins and terrorizes children have no factual leg to stand on. i've seen many messed up kids come from foster homes where corporal disipline is not allowed. the kids i know who are brought up on dobson style parenting techniques including dr dobson's own kids seem to be doing ok. nothing is perfect but empirical evidence seems to suggest banning spanking creates more problems than it solves.
anyways i spank my kids and i resent some of the anti-spankers up here in canada who want to throw me in jail and give me a criminal record because they happen to think they know how to raise my kids better than me.... :angryfire
then the socialist do godders will have a really great track record traumatizing my and other conservative christian kids by throwing them in a foster home for it!!!!
about 5 years back the anti spanker activists in our government child protection agency called the children's aid did that to a mennonite family in aylmer ontario because they spank their kids. the kids were screaming as the cops and social workers dragged them out of their parents home. for months the children were kept from their loving parents and exposed to drinking, cigarette smoking and anti-religious bigotry in the foster homes they were placed in. the kids cried and begged to go back home every day for months. eventually the childrens aid realized imposing their ideas on peaceful mennonite homes was not a very good idea as the press and outcome of the children they "rescued" was going badly.
I don't know anything about Dr. Dobson, and respect that he has helped many people with child rearing, as per the posts. However, I don't think I agree on the paragraph regarding crying after punishment. Everyone is different, including children, and everyone should be allowed to cry as long as they like. Let them have their guilt and pain in private, for as long as it takes.
Per the post:
"I would require him to stop the protest crying, usually by offering him a little more of whatever caused the original tears."
Perhaps I am missing something? It sure sounds like he advocates spanking, crying about the punishment and pain until a parent or Doctor decides you have cried enough, then threatening the child with more spanking if he doesn't stop crying.
If you don't hush- I'll spank you again? Isn't that considered abusive?
Specializes in Mental Health, footcare, geriatrics.
I don't know anything about Dr. Dobson, and respect that he has helped many people with child rearing, as per the posts. However, I don't think I agree on the paragraph regarding crying after punishment. Everyone is different, including children, and everyone should be allowed to cry as long as they like. Let them have their guilt and pain in private, for as long as it takes.
Per the post:
"I would require him to stop the protest crying, usually by offering him a little more of whatever caused the original tears."
Perhaps I am missing something? It sure sounds like he advocates spanking, crying about the punishment and pain until a parent or Doctor decides you have cried enough, then threatening the child with more spanking if he doesn't stop crying.
If you don't hush- I'll spank you again? Isn't that considered abusive?
Could you please expound?
Thank you.
Well it could be more spanking or in my house it usually means more time in the corner.
Is it abusive? Maybe in the eyes some parents who have no appetite to win against their children's defiance.
Anyways my philosophy is let liberals who want to "negotiate" with their three year olds do just that.
I just hope they let me use my "outdated" Bible. I find its priciples to be rather fine in raising my children.....
Uh, no! Spanking is not demonstrating love, it's demonstrating frustration, anger and lack of any intelligent reaction! Foster homes as a threat is carrying an issue too far. First of all you really have to discuss with a kid who thinks a foster home would be dandy, what they would like about that and let them know that you'd miss them terribly; and they'd be taking a space that some child who really needs to be there due to worse problems (please don't describe abuse) might have. Do tell your child that you're sure you can work things out together. (We've all heard about dreadful foster placements, and as wonderful as it may sound to have a week or so to chill, it wouldn't do anyone any good, especially a child who would then learn to absent themselves when family pressure is uncomfortable).
Police officers know that they can't react aggressively except for self protection (we've all seen sordid scenes on TV when peace officers were anything but that. Most of them loathe those situations, and must act expediantly lest situations accelerate. With children, it's important to prevent self destructive behavior, and then the crime rate would be less due to better self control.
Unfortunately kids don't come with instructions and we need education for each phase of their lives, as our parents usually reacted reflexively which is why we think spanking is the answer. It never is, unless you want to raise someone who resolves issues by hurting others. Self respect comes from seeing role models who respect themselves too much to lower themselves to the level a child is when they misbehave. You can't respect yourself when you act out aggressively with someone very much smaller who needs you to really know best.
What you have to be kidding me? Why are you using quotes from the bible,some people in this thread may go by old or new testament,some maybe be Yehovas Witnesses,and some may be atheist or even christians who dont necessary go by every word in the bible.It is not polite to enforce your own religion on other people.With that said I'm catholic however some of the scripts have to be taken with the grain of salt because sometimes it is hard to fit those teachings/guidance into the "real world"For instance just because the bible say offer your left cheek to someone who hit you in your right cheek,you think I would do it....oh no,just because the bible say do not use contraceptives,do not live with the man before you get married,you think I would do it,no,do you get my point....???
I just had to spank my child. And now he's screaming his head off in his bedroom. If he wants to yell, fine. But I don't have to listen to it. I'll let him cry and yell as long as he wants too, in his room.
:)
Dr. Spock was an expert too, and we all soon came to realize that he was not always right regarding child rearing.
I don't know who Dr. Dobson is or how much he has done for child rearing information and advise. So I won't comment on something I know nothing about, that would show ignorance.
But I will say this: Noone loves his butt more than I do, and I made that butt and I'll spank it if I have too.
I'd rather spank him now than see him in prison later!
:angryfire 
lamazeteacher
2,170 Posts
Uh, no! Spanking is not demonstrating love, it's demonstrating frustration, anger and lack of any intelligent reaction! Foster homes as a threat is carrying an issue too far. First of all you really have to discuss with a kid who thinks a foster home would be dandy, what they would like about that and let them know that you'd miss them terribly; and they'd be taking a space that some child who really needs to be there due to worse problems (please don't describe abuse) might have. Do tell your child that you're sure you can work things out together. (We've all heard about dreadful foster placements, and as wonderful as it may sound to have a week or so to chill, it wouldn't do anyone any good, especially a child who would then learn to absent themselves when family pressure is uncomfortable).
Police officers know that they can't react aggressively except for self protection (we've all seen sordid scenes on TV when peace officers were anything but that. Most of them loathe those situations, and must act expediantly lest situations accelerate. With children, it's important to prevent self destructive behavior, and then the crime rate would be less due to better self control.
Unfortunately kids don't come with instructions and we need education for each phase of their lives, as our parents usually reacted reflexively which is why we think spanking is the answer. It never is, unless you want to raise someone who resolves issues by hurting others. Self respect comes from seeing role models who respect themselves too much to lower themselves to the level a child is when they misbehave. You can't respect yourself when you act out aggressively with someone very much smaller who needs you to really know best.