Allina Health not hiring online NP grads

MiaLyse, APRN · Jul 13, 2016

>

I have always thought this was not good and feel it somehow cheapens the NP education for lack of a better word.

agrayRN, MSN, APRN, NP · Jul 13, 2016

I wanted to provide a little feedback on this topic from personal experience. I graduated in May from an online-only AGNP program, and while I really enjoyed it, I have to say that I would not recommend it to students that do not have any prior nursing background (e.g. do not have an ASN or BSN with at least a few years of experience behind them). I did the BSN to MSN track. I thought the content was great, but there are some things that you just need to learn in person if you are at the very beginning of your journey. My 10 years of nursing experience was very helpful, and I personally don't know that I would have done as well without it. I certainly would not feel as confident. We were able to choose our own clinical rotations in this program, which I believe can work well, if you have the ability to choose well for yourself. I also had a leg up in that way, because I have been with my organization for 8 years as an RN, and knew many of the providers well enough to choose preceptors easily. For someone who does not have that benefit, it would be much more difficult. So, long story short, I believe some of these programs (I can really only go by mine) are a good option for people that work full-time and would otherwise be unable to become NPs, which is why I went that route. The university near me that did the option that was previously mentioned by someone, the one that had on-site courses a couple times per week and the rest of it online (another good option), only offered FNP. The online-only AGNP program was the best option for me. Hopefully this provides a little insight!

guest538567 · Jul 13, 2016

Well who died and made Allina the gold standard? Uh, there are many opportunities for NPs believe me I would not be discourage finding employment. This elitist mentality is why this profession never will be where it should be. I did not take an online course as an advanced practice student but there is no reason to deny others who may have only that option to pursue their advance practice degree. I realize that is what one puts in their education endeavor than the actual curriculum itself. Just because someone goes to Harvard Law School does not guarantee they will be a better lawyer. It depends on how well that person engages his/her learning in law as well as other professions.

As a NP, I want advanced practice nursing to have strict standards and attract the best that nursing has to offer. This is especially true with more states offering full autonomy. Would you want to be treated by a NP from a for-profit, online only program that has the (at least theoretical) ability to independently practice without any clinical supervision immediately after graduation? We should be looking at increasing the standards of our profession not lessening them for ease of access.

I get that you are saying that it is the student that matters more than the program. I would generally agree with this. I recognize that there can be poor performing students at any school and I am sure that there are good students that also come out of these programs. However, if you have lax admission standards, you are more likely to attract a lesser candidate than a more rigorous school. The intent of many of these programs is to make money for shareholders and I have not seen the same level of commitment to the community, nursing, and students that are present at other schools.

JellyDonut · Jul 13, 2016

You make a good point that your experience as an RN allows you to have an easier transition to NP than a newbie with 6 months experience. I have seen so many RNs finish their program and move straight into an NP program. Those are the ones who scare me and make me believe that there should be a national standard for experience as an RN before moving on to the NP role. An an NP we hold both licenses and hopefully has established competency as an RN prior to moving forward.

JellyDonut · Jul 13, 2016

I also think to exclude all online program graduates sets a bad example. Take a online graduate who had many years as a nurse and works in the facility prior to graduating. Is Allina going to turn them down for someone who has less experience and never worked for them? You have to take these case by case and look at the whole picture of the applicant. I have worked with some scary bad NPs from brick and mortar programs that I would not let anywhere near someone I know. I have also worked with some outstanding NPs who came from online programs.

I went to a brick and mortar school with many classes online. The online lectures were great as I could watch them at 0200 - being forced to drive across town to hear it live would not have brought anything new to the topic. I think I would examine the board pass rate of the programs along with the background of the applicant rather than just draw the line in the sand and say no.

elkpark · Jul 13, 2016

I also think to exclude all online program graduates sets a bad example. Take a online graduate who had many years as a nurse and works in the facility prior to graduating. Is Allina going to turn them down for someone who has less experience and never worked for them? You have to take these case by case and look at the whole picture of the applicant. I have worked with some scary bad NPs from brick and mortar programs that I would not let anywhere near someone I know. I have also worked with some outstanding NPs who came from online programs.
I went to a brick and mortar school with many classes online. The online lectures were great as I could watch them at 0200 - being forced to drive across town to hear it live would not have brought anything new to the topic. I think I would examine the board pass rate of the programs along with the background of the applicant rather than just draw the line in the sand and say no.

Again, the statement from Allina on the website says nothing about excluding "all online program graduates." It says that the organization has problems with some proprietary (private-for-profit) online programs.

Jules A, MSN · Jul 13, 2016

I think I would examine the board pass rate of the programs along with the background of the applicant rather than just draw the line in the sand and say no.

Judging the quality of a school by the rate of students who pass the boards, although it is the standard we have to work with, is sad imo. This does little to actually demonstrate clinical competence. The PMH and FNP boards I took were heavy on nursing fluff and light on diagnosing and prescribing which I think is inexcusable. If I had to guess my psych boards had maybe 5% of content on medications and only 1 question on labs. My guess is I could probably pass any of the NP boards today without any prep. This needs to change.

Lisa.fnp · Jul 13, 2016

Allina Health Nurse Practitioner II Job in Minneapolis, MN | Glassdoor
"Allina Health does not hire new grads from all academic institutions. Many proprietary on-line schools do not meet Allina Health's standards due to the minimal oversight of the student's clinical experience, the high faculty/student ratio, and the lack of focus on national certification standards in the curriculum."

The information about the hiring practices of Allina Health is a nice read thanks for posting, happy to see such a standard. But your choice of words "In Your Title" Fails! Why? When it comes to bringing attention an article you resorted to sensationalism and blanket statements that's just not true. Your title states. "Allina Health Not Hiring Online NP Grads". Do you think your able to properly communicate a truthful news worthy introduction? Here is an example, " Allina Health not hiring from all online NP Institutions"

reggaemuffin, MSN, NP, CNS · Jul 13, 2016

I have nothing against NPs who choose to go to one of these schools...I appreciate the struggle. However, if more companies take this stance it will force the powers that be to create some better standards for NP schools and it can only be good for our profession. The only way things will change is when the money is cut off. If facilities do not hire grads from these schools then fewer people will enroll there and choose better schools, and hopefully ones that find preceptors for their students. Without the money they will die and standards will increase. It will also reduce the number of NPs released into the market therefore increasing demand and in turn wages.

Agree. We just had our third new grad, all of which graduated from the nursing program. None knew the basics, none last lasted more than a month. I would be very wary to hire anyone else from this school.

AAC.271 · Jul 13, 2016

I have brought this up before, but even though online NP programs have bloomed over the years, the results consistently show parity with physicians and standards have NOT declined. This argument that just because you went to a better ranked school or a brick and mortar school and are therefore better practitioners is, in my humble opinion, outright bull.

Please get the superiority complex out of your heads. Online NP grads are, on average, as competent as brick and mortar school grads. It's a common argument by physicians that they are better than NP's because they receive better quality education since they are required to attend brick and mortar schools and have more training, yet the outcomes are the same! Well wake up folks because the supposed education disparity between brick and mortar NP schools and online NP schools is much smaller and I bet you $100 that the outcomes between both online and traditional NP grads are the same. It's the work experience that counts, not the school you go to.

I am legit annoyed at the nurses here who always tear each other apart. We are all in this together and even if your school is more respected, the qualit yof education as a whole is very similar and the outcomes are the same if not better than physicians.

Don't let anecdotal evidence fool you from evidenced based data.

allnurses Guide · Jul 13, 2016

I tried one time to take a NP student for clinic from one of the more notorious online programs and after the first half-day I sent him home and cancelled the preceptorship because he had never had a provider level physical exam course and couldn't negotiate a basic H&P. I now only take students from two local schools I trust or students I know personally or professionally. We only hire NPs from one local program. I am not surprised larger companies are doing this.

That being said, as a profession, we should crack down on this ourselves and not force the market to do it.

Jules A, MSN · Jul 13, 2016

It's a common argument by physicians that they are better than NP's because they receive better quality education since they are required to attend brick and mortar schools and have more training, yet the outcomes are the same!

The next decade will be the litmus test as the numbers of NP grads explode. Old data when NPs historically had RN experience and a majority went to brick and mortar schools vs what we got now is not the same population of providers so my guess is "outcomes" will deteriorate. Time will tell I guess.