Allina Health not hiring online NP grads

Rocknurse, MSN, APRN, NP · Jul 14, 2016

Sadly, some programs no longer do this and instead expect the preceptor to do it while precepting the first semester. Those programs need to go away.

Agreed. My school also finds all our preceptors for us and vets them beforehand, and all placements for the acute program are at the major teaching hospitals in my state. Another reason why I went there. All schools should be held to this standard.

Buyer beware, BSN · Jul 14, 2016

Good for them! I have no clue which schools they aren't interested in hiring from but have to applaud someone for finally deciding we need better standards. The lack of admission criteria, lack of instructor experience, minimal hours and weak nursing theory oriented curriculum in NP schools who are now doing little more than attempting to hold on to undergrad alum and continue to suck their money is frightening. I'm glad someone is actually taking a stand and attempting to ensure a quality background before they hire anyone with a BC and prescription pad. Just my opinion as someone who went to a well respected school which was very weak also and my subsequent work experience with NPs who are woefully unprepared to practice.

Every once in a while someone expresses the God's honest truth about a situation. This is that once in a while.

What has happened in nursing education has nothing and everything to do with nursing education in general.

Nursing has once agian abdicated its responsibility to ride-heard over what others who could give a hoot about anything but the almighty buck want to do. These people I talk about are the for-profit schools in particular but there are many others. The proliferation of Moe, Larry and Curly universities is phenomenal. The lack of "nursing leadership" boarders on felonious. Many of these schools would not even be players if not for their nursing components. South University run by EDMC and University of Phoenix are but two of the most eggregious examples. But the sell-out has been going on for years. Nursing has been inexorably co-opted by by state legislatures and big corporate interestes working together to pump out RNs and NPs at a fevor pitch. As a result, it is no wonder that employers should suspect the preparedness of many nursing graduates across the board. After all, when and if something goes wrong believe me the lawyers will be there to put a practitioner's education and training under a microscope and to put it in the vernacular, Joe Blow online university "ain't gonna get it." No matter how much the the hapless graduate over-paid, with straight A's to boot.

And if you want to talk about nursing accredtation, well, that's BS too.

AAC.271 · Jul 14, 2016

People need to get rid of this notion that all for profit online schools are bad. Certainly on a whole, they aren't the best, but that does not mean they pump out incompetent graduates. So long as you have solid preceptors that you find or the school provides and you pay attention in class to the basic principles, you will do well. Worse comes to worse, you can use third party programs like uptodate.

Medicine is changing folks and you don't need to be the best and brightest to be a competent provider. You need to be a good searcher--someone who when he/she doesn't know the answer knows to effectively search up the answer using reputable sources.

If you have a sharp mind and a passission to learn, you will succeed in this business. No need for this Degree trashing nonsense. All it is is a piece of paper and does not make you any better or worse than another NP.

allnurses Guide · Jul 14, 2016

People need to get rid of this notion that all for profit online schools are bad. Certainly on a whole, they aren't the best, but that does not mean they pump out incompetent graduates. So long as you have solid preceptors that you find or the school provides and you pay attention in class to the basic principles, you will do well. Worse comes to worse, you can use third party programs like uptodate.
Medicine is changing folks and you don't need to be the best and brightest to be a competent provider. You need to be a good searcher--someone who when he/she doesn't know the answer knows to effectively search up the answer using reputable sources.
If you have a sharp mind and a passission to learn, you will succeed in this business. No need for this Degree trashing nonsense. All it is is a piece of paper and does not make you any better or worse than another NP.

Are you an NP? Did you go to one of these programs?

Using decision support tools like UpToDate is one thing but we most certainly do not want NPs basing their practice on googling symptoms and treatments. I can't believe any practicing NP would support "searching up the answer". Frankly, that scares the crap out of me.

You do need to be bright, well educated, and well prepared to be a competent provider. It is not for anyone that can google. It doesn't have much to do with degree as it does with appropriate preparation.

AAC.271 · Jul 14, 2016

I am an sNP and I go to a program that is predominantly online, but we did have to go to the school in person a few times. It is a nonprofit university. However, I have several friends who are taking classes at the for profit schools and they are happy with their education and I do not think any less of them because of where they chose to attend school.

Also, did you even bother to read what I wrote? I never said NP's weren't bright and educated. I said booksmarts isn't the only thing necessary to become a good provider. You need to be first and foremost someone willing to always learn and someone who is kind, caring, compassionate and personable.

I never said practices should be based solely on google searches. That's totally wrong. Everyone knows most of our learning comes from learning through our peers and colleagues. What i'm saying is that there are other strategies for new NP's to learn and hone their skills such as through peer reviewed journals to learn about the best treatment algorithms and sites such as uptodate to learn more about the disease.

Please do not take what I said and completely distort it!!!

allnurses Guide · Jul 14, 2016

I am an sNP and I go to a program that is predominantly online, but we did have to go to the school in person a few times.
I said booksmarts isn't the only thing necessary to become a good provider. You need to be first and foremost someone willing to always learn and someone who is kind, caring, compassionate and personable.

You are talking about what it takes to make a good provider without any experience of actually being a provider. Kind, caring, compassionate and personable make you a likable provider but not necessarily a good provider; the job of a provider is not to simply be a good buddy to every patient. Actually, often the most important part of the job is going against what your patient thinks/wants/believes. You are not alone in that, I felt it as a student, just about every student I precept feels it. It's the classic "I just want to help people" mentality that fades very quickly in practice and results in tremendous burn out of providers.

AAC.271 · Jul 14, 2016

That is true that I may not have the most experience, but nonetheless, I find it hard to believe that Online for profit NP training is so tremendously horrible compared to online non profit NP training and brick and mortar schools.

allnurses Guide · Jul 14, 2016

That is true that I may not have the most experience, but nonetheless, I find it hard to believe that Online for profit NP training is so tremendously horrible compared to online non profit NP training and brick and mortar schools.

Not all online programs are bad, actually, some are quite good (Simmons, Georgetown, etc), and not all B&M program are good (I know of some local horrid ones).

There are programs that have a "reputation" and that's why you see posts about not taking preceptees from these program or employers not hiring from these programs. These are the programs that take anyone with a checkbook rather than those qualified. I think that concerns most practicing NPs and should concern student and future NPs.

MiaLyse, APRN · Jul 14, 2016

Agreed. My school also finds all our preceptors for us and vets them beforehand, and all placements for the acute program are at the major teaching hospitals in my state. Another reason why I went there. All schools should be held to this standard.

I agree. It is unprofessional to have the student find their own mentors for clinical placements, IMO.

Buyer beware, BSN · Jul 15, 2016

Good for Allina Health. Since the so-called nursing leadership has abdicated their responsibility to hold these for-profit loan mills to account, it's good to see that Allina is doing what the nursing cowards have historically turned their backs on. This is a huge move and should help hasten the continued meltdown of for-profit super expensive, poor outcome nursing education in this country, ie. South Univesity and University of Phoenix among others.

After all, has anyone ever heard of online medical school? If you have, I want that person to be my doctor, don't you?

guest538567 · Jul 16, 2016

People need to get rid of this notion that all for profit online schools are bad. Certainly on a whole, they aren't the best, but that does not mean they pump out incompetent graduates. So long as you have solid preceptors that you find or the school provides and you pay attention in class to the basic principles, you will do well. Worse comes to worse, you can use third party programs like uptodate.
Medicine is changing folks and you don't need to be the best and brightest to be a competent provider. You need to be a good searcher--someone who when he/she doesn't know the answer knows to effectively search up the answer using reputable sources.
If you have a sharp mind and a passission to learn, you will succeed in this business. No need for this Degree trashing nonsense. All it is is a piece of paper and does not make you any better or worse than another NP.

That is the crux of the problem with the for-profit model. These schools attract candidates that likely should not be allowed entry to an NP program. The harsh reality is that not everyone that wants to be an NP should be allowed entry. Desire and the ability to obtain student loans should not be the metric by which we allow entry to a profession that has the responsibility of diagnosing and treating illness.

I will say it again...nurse practitioners should reflect the best and brightest. That is the caliber of provider that I would want treating my family. That is the provider that I strive to be.

guest538567 · Jul 16, 2016

There are some interesting parallels between the transition of for-profit nursing education and that of medical education.

In 1910, Abraham Flexner published the Flexner Report which essentially defined what would become the modern medical education system. This document established recommendations for standardization of entry and curriculum. At the time, medical education was an unstandardized mess of mostly for-profit institutions.

Flexner had this to say, "such exploitation of medical education is strangely inconsistent with the social aspects of medical practice...the medical profession is an organ differentiated by society for its highest purposes, not a business to be exploited".

This philosophy holds true today. My understanding is that there are no for-profit degree granting allopathic medical programs in the US. This is because the Liaison Committee on Medical Education, the accrediting organization for medical schools, strictly says that schools should be non-profit. I think this reflects a value in the medical community and an understanding that medical education represents a social benefit that should not be profit driven or beholden to shareholders. I wish that our nursing accrediting bodies were as forward thinking.