Agism in nursing???? (furious rant potential)

[chris_at_lucas_RN]

I gave up just short of $1,000 in pay in order to attend an internship fair at Baylor Medical Center in Dallas in October. I dressed up, polished up my resume, made a bunch of copies. I shook hands, smiled, made eye contact, got a lot of encouragement, all the managers I spoke with said they were interested in me. Looked me right in the eye when they said it too.

Let's look at what I have (had) to offer:

By the time the internships start, I'll have a solid year of hospital experience. I volunteer at a community clinic, and I am taking Spanish in order to increase my ability to care for my Spanish-only patients.

I have an exceptionally good evaluation from my first supervisor, with complimentary remarks. I also have written praises from patients, maybe 15 or so that I can actually lay my hands on. Two supervisors and a handful of experienced RN coworkers have enthusiastically agreed to serve as references for me.

I graduated with a 4.0 in nursing from a college that is one of the 7 identified by the ANA for excellence in nursing education.

I have a bachelor's degree and a master's from my prenursing days. I am a dually licensed professional (in psychotherapy). I graduated Phi Beta Kappa from the bachelor's program, which was at a well known and well thought-of nearby state university.

Interestingly, I didn't get so much as an interview or the courtesy of a letter saying they weren't interested.

Gee, could it be because I'm not a 25 year old fresh out of school?

As it happens, I'm 52. My friend who went with me to the fair is 48, and they didn't bother giving her the time of day when it was all over with either. We both look pretty good for our ages. Not that that should matter.

I don't have a criminal record, never been arrested, never have done anything criminal that would have gotten me arrested!

Anybody else experiencing age-ism in nursing? Is there anybody out there who has successfully sued over it? I'm contemplating legal action and would love to hear from anyone with similar experiences, especially if you are in the Dallas area and know of an attorney adept and interested.....

Thanks. :angryfire

[HappyJaxRN]

Wow. I didn't know this was happening. You would THINK that he would be swept up based on his background, education, and maturity. I don't think that's fair at all. Oh well, they're loss.

[Gennaver, MSN]

Maybe, you are overqualified, not too "old".

Hi SmilingBlueEyes,

This is the avenue I would suggest the OP consider too. Quite possibly the new employer realized that they and she were not best suited for each other.

One door closed...another is open, at least I hope so for our op!

Lots of qualifications, MA and BA? Maybe a look into community health or even for bedside in a hospital that encourages nurses to grow.

Gen

[gauge14iv, MSN, APRN, NP]

In my experience in the DFW area, it does no good to hand people resumes or attend career fairs, you must apply online for everything and even then it takes them a month to six weeks to call you. It just takes forever. And even then, you have to call them to reinforce your interest. and that's WITH nursing experience!

I doubt it is the age or the new grad status honestly - nor is it over qualification - basically, the squeaky wheels get the grease. Call them again and let them know you are interested. Yep - pester them.

When I went back to work after having my last child it took 5 weeks before I was called for an interview at 2 facilities, another 2 before decisions were made and then it was 3 mos later that I started an orientation...

How long ago was this career fair? If it was fairly recent and you havn't applied online too, I'm not surprised you havn't been called. In addition - New Grads usually are hired to start either June, or January so that they can run internships/preceptorships for them.

[chris_at_lucas_RN, RN]

Hi Chris at lucas RN,

My experience is only similar in that I didn't get what I wanted...I applied to a graduate entry program and was passed up!

Sure I later got into my second choice school but, it burned me up that I was passed over, (sure lots of other people were passed over too but, I only thought of myself, even got very down about it for a couple of days.)

Yet, sure enough, I LOVE the program that I am in. One of my classmates mentioned that she was at the other school and heard them discussing my application and that they passed me over because of me sharing my interest in earning a PhD.

Hmmm, so they passed me over this summer and I was sad, mad and dejected.

Yet, six months later and I am so very GRATEFUL that they did pass me up because I am in with a wonderful group in a wonderful program and will be finished a year ahead of the 'other' program AND to top it all off, I just got a job with another hospital that encourages its nurses to go for their PhDs.

So, bottom line, yeah, it sucks to get passed over, especially when you are so well qualified. Sometimes though, those who do the hiring or accepting or recruiting might just know when THEY are not a good fit for US, more than the reverse being true.

I am very sorry that this didn't work out for you and I hope something much better happens because you are not obligated to them!

Gen

Thank you for the encouraging words.

However, this is about a job. In the US, it is illegal to disqualify someone based on race, age, ethnicity, religion, etc. My qualifications far surpassed most or all of the people they hired, I guarantee you.

This isn't about not getting what I wanted. This is about being discriminated against on basis of age. If someone wrote about being turned down because they were a person of color, would that make any more sense?

So, while I appreciate the encouragement, we really didn't have the same experience. Thanks for sharing, and good luck in the new situation. It does sound like you have grown through the "I want it" to "I appreciate it" way of life, but this isn't about sour grapes.

[RosesrReder, BSN, MSN, RN]

Wow Chris, this is so wrong

I do think there is ageism. People don't like to really talk about this sort of stuff but truth is that you will always find "prospective employers" who size you up and almost unconsciously make a decision based on many factors such as age, race, and even weight. It's kinda like the ppl who think or say that racism doesn't exist anymore. Well, we all know it still does......not as much but it's there.

I know there are many who will beg to differ but I have been there and done that. I can honestly remember when I worked as an Admin Asst, and the boss (a female by the way) would make rude comments after interviews. Such as look how big so and so was, or so and so is too old.......whatever made her apply . Imagine how I felt when she flat out told me the only reason she hired me was because I was fluently bilingual (I was almost 300 lbs then) all my co-workers looked like super models.

After I lost my weight and went down to 140, I was looked at in a whole different light. It disgusted me so much, yet motivated me to lose the weight and prove a point. Needless to say, I left.

Anyhow, I know this is too much info and got carried away but just wanted to share with you.

I will be praying for you. God knows why he does things and maybe this was a reason for you not to work there. Who knows how happy you would have been.

About you being over qualified, well it's very much possible too. Or maybe they will call you soon.

God bless

Jessica

[michelle54]

Chris - I'm not quite sure what kind of internship program in which you had interest ... If you're a new grad RN, why not go to work in a hospital through a new grad program and get some experience under your belt, then the "age" issue may be less relevent. I'm in the Boston area, have been an RN for 5 years and am 51 -- I know I could go anywhere in this area for a job because I have been successfully working in the field. Where there is a need for a nurse, you will be hired. I can sense the intense anger of your post, but you know how much time and effort goes into litigation ... What is more important to you at this time? Getting a job or maybe getting revenge ... Best of luck.

[fergus51]

, I quickly discovered they give internships to new grads, and jobs only to experienced OR nurses.

This is the catch 22 in nursing. My parents could not understand why I moved across the country to take a NICU job. "Why don't you just work in the NICU here?" "Ummm.... cause they won't take me as a nurse with previous experience in OB". A friend of mine is also leaving our hospital to take a job in another city because our hospital won't train her in adult ICU.

[Jo Dirt]

I've been passed over for jobs because I was fat and unattractive. Of course, they never came out and said that, but it was painfully obvious.

Nursing is the one field where it doesn't matter what you look like. I've not experienced age discrimination yet, but I know it's coming. It's just too bad it's so easy for employers to disguise discrimination by using different terms for it.

Just try to keep in mind that when one door closes another one opens.

[RosesrReder, BSN, MSN, RN]

Wow. I didn't know this was happening. You would THINK that he would be swept up based on his background, education, and maturity. I don't think that's fair at all. Oh well, they're loss.

I agree. It's such a shame but it's their loss. I am sure the Lord has an appreciative employer waiting for her out there soon. :)

[VivaLasViejas, ASN, RN]

Chris, I don't know what exactly transpired to make these people decide to hire someone less qualified than you, but I happen to agree with you that there is, indeed, ageism in nursing, just as there is in society at large. It's very carefully hidden, and reasons for not hiring or promoting the older nurse are couched in highfalutin language in order to make it look like something else---after all, age discrimination is against the LAW---but it's there nonetheless.

I'm seeing it even where I work, in a small community hospital which is actually one of the better employers in my area. There are a number of us 40+ nurses who sense that we are being eased out of our jobs.......two of us because we've been ill quite a bit this year and have conditions that make it hard for us to perform certain physical tasks. Several others have gone from full-time to casual or part-time status; others have changed departments; still others have quit, and one was even fired (although in all fairness, she was incompetent in addition to being 43 and overweight).

Part of it is money, I think, although not all the older nurses have been there a long time (I myself have only worked there for a total of 5 years). But a good deal of the 'problem', IMO, is the fact that most of us can't keep up with the pace demanded of Med/Surg nurses these days.......too many patients, too much turnover, too much work to complete in the time alloted. There are days when I have almost 100% patient turnover---I discharge one and then get an admit, discharge another and get a fresh post-op, send still another to a nursing home and take two more admits and/or post-ops. (I almost never take either of my 15-minute breaks because there's too much to do, and only get a lunch because my blood sugar goes in the dumper around 2 PM and I begin to snarl:stone ) We literally run the entire time we're at work.......and someone has even taken away several of the chairs at the nurses' station, so now we're having to do some of our computer work and even report standing up.:angryfire

I'm sorry, I'm ranting again, but this is only a drop in the bucket.......it seems TPTB are unwilling to adapt the workplace to accomodate older nurses. No, it is we who must adapt to the workplace, and if we can't keep up, we suffer......and in the end, so do our patients.

[HeartsOpenWide, RN]

Are you sure this is an age thing? I relies that you have a lot of experience and are highly qualified in other fields....maybe they feel that do you not have enough experience in nursing...You can have a PhD in worm science, a masters in Philosphy...but if you do not have enough experience in nursing they might not hire you, they might not even care about your other degrees. KWIM? Why not call the school and ask them why they did not pick you or what qualification the people had that were picked...(I am not saying that ageism does not exist, or even that this is for sure not a issue of ageism)

However, being that it is an internship thing, maybe they are only taking students. You said you graduated with a 4.0 so I assume you already have your nursing degree...maybe it is strictly for students, that usually what internships are for last time I checked.

[mtnmom]

I have encountered what I believe to be "ageism" in nursing several times since graduating from my nursing program at age 40 - some subtle, some not-so-subtle. I will leave it at that.