Aggressive family member

[Jerez]

So I was placing an IV in a pediatric pt about 6mo and she was of course not happy. She was crying and the mother was comforting her the best she could. As I was placing the IV though, the dad reached across the bed while I had the needle in the child's arm and literally pushed my hands away and told me to stop & get another nurse. I was shocked that someone would do that and was taken completely off guard. The wife had jumped when he did it too and almost intervened but stopped herself. Anyways, I became angry and flustered over the whole ordeal as the doctor had explained in great detail what to expect and gave them the option of PO fluids & meds vs IV. I pulled the needle out and wrapped the child's arm, apologized, and told them I would send in another RN. I spoke to my charge RN about the situation and decided to transfer the child's care to another RN because I felt very uncomfortable at this point. I couldn't help but ask myself over and over what I did to set this man off but at the same time don't think any pt or family member has a right to lay their hands on any staff especially during a procedure. A simple "stop" would have worked just as well. Also, I do understand the frustration of having a sick child that ends up going through painful procedures in order to help them get better so I know that plays a part. I guess I just need to suck it up as part of the job. I just wonder as nurses, should we expect to be abused, whether physically or verbally? Or should I have said something about the inappropriateness of what happened right then & there? I'm not sure what was the most professional thing to do but I did not want to escalate the situation any further but at the same time I wanted to let him know that touching me or any other staff member in an aggressive manner would not be allowed.

[Leader25, ASN, BSN, RN]

And you're always free to press charges for anything you like, just like you could press charges against the checker and the grocery store who gets your attention by tapping your shoulder to let you know another checkstand has opened. Although you still would need to get a judge to agree that this fits the intent of the law. The more pertinent question is whether or not it's reasonable to press felony charges against someone who touches your hand to get your attention, I would argue it's not.

That is not what occured,you need to reread OP. She is a nurse on duty not at the supermarket,she is doing patient care involving a procedure,NO nurse should be harassed at work.If he did to one nurse he might try again, time to think perhaps there is the shadow of underlying domestic violence with this family.

[MunoRN, RN]

That is not what occured,you need to reread OP. She is a nurse on duty not at the supermarket,she is doing patient care involving a procedure,NO nurse should be harassed at work.If he did to one nurse he might try again, time to think perhaps there is the shadow of underlying domestic violence with this family.

The OP's scenario was pretty clear, the dad made contact with the nurse's hand for purpose of getting her attention and to stop the procedure, it was not intended to cause the nurse harm or injury or to be in any way violent.

As an example, my wife is insistent that my 5 year old be able to learn how to use a kitchen knife, cutting tomatoes for instance. The potential for harm to my daughter causes me anxiety, so I stand there watching over her while she's using a knife. If I see something that concerns me, I don't yell "STOP!" since that's pretty clearly unwise while someone is holding a knife and is in the middle of cutting, so instead I simply move her hand so that the knife is no longer heading right for her finger, are you saying that I'm an abusive father?

[TriciaJ, RN]

The OP's scenario was pretty clear, the dad made contact with the nurse's hand for purpose of getting her attention and to stop the procedure, it was not intended to cause the nurse harm or injury or to be in any way violent.

As an example, my wife is insistent that my 5 year old be able to learn how to use a kitchen knife, cutting tomatoes for instance. The potential for harm to my daughter causes me anxiety, so I stand there watching over her while she's using a knife. If I see something that concerns me, I don't yell "STOP!" since that's pretty clearly unwise while someone is holding a knife and is in the middle of cutting, so instead I simply move her hand so that the knife is no longer heading right for her finger, are you saying that I'm an abusive father?

1. Moving a 5 year old's hand away from a knife

2. Pushing a nurse's hand that is holding a needle that has just been inserted into a child's vein

How are these 2 things remotely alike?

[DisneyNurseGal, BSN, RN]

The OP's scenario was pretty clear, the dad made contact with the nurse's hand for purpose of getting her attention and to stop the procedure, it was not intended to cause the nurse harm or injury or to be in any way violent.

As an example, my wife is insistent that my 5 year old be able to learn how to use a kitchen knife, cutting tomatoes for instance. The potential for harm to my daughter causes me anxiety, so I stand there watching over her while she's using a knife. If I see something that concerns me, I don't yell "STOP!" since that's pretty clearly unwise while someone is holding a knife and is in the middle of cutting, so instead I simply move her hand so that the knife is no longer heading right for her finger, are you saying that I'm an abusive father?

Not even close to being the same thing. So based on your logic, next time I am teaching a new nurse how to insert an NG tube and she starts to hurt the child, I should push her hands away.. got it.

No person should hand on another. There is no scenario or argument that you can make that will make this parents behavior acceptable.

[DisneyNurseGal, BSN, RN]

I never draw blood nor do IV's in front of a parent.I send them out and promise to get them as soon as it is done.

1000% not okay. You are stripping away the comfort and security of that child. Unless the child is of the age they can make the decision if they want the parent in the room or not, the parent stays. You can use positions of comfort and distraction to occupy the parents with a task. Separating a child from a parent during a traumatic procedure, guaranteeing is harming a child (even the tiniest of humans). Trust issues, anxiety and even PTSD can happen to children while in the hospital if they are not made to feel loved and safe even through the scary stuff.

[JadedCPN, BSN, RN]

The OP's scenario was pretty clear, the dad made contact with the nurse's hand for purpose of getting her attention and to stop the procedure, it was not intended to cause the nurse harm or injury or to be in any way violent.

As an example, my wife is insistent that my 5 year old be able to learn how to use a kitchen knife, cutting tomatoes for instance. The potential for harm to my daughter causes me anxiety, so I stand there watching over her while she's using a knife. If I see something that concerns me, I don't yell "STOP!" since that's pretty clearly unwise while someone is holding a knife and is in the middle of cutting, so instead I simply move her hand so that the knife is no longer heading right for her finger, are you saying that I'm an abusive father?

The OP said the father "pushed my hands away" which surely is a bit more than you downplayed it by saying he made contact with the nurse's hand for the purpose of getting her attention. You can get attention without pushing.

I have no issues with the dad being upset, with the dad wanting the procedure to stop, with the dad not trusting the nurse and wanting another one, with the dad wanting to protect the child...nor do I agree that this indicated abusive tendencies or that he is a bad father; I completely understand all of that, however I still firmly stand by my stance that even in this scenario it was absolutely NOT okay for the father to put his hands on the nurse and he should have been made aware immediately that it wasn't okay. Period.

[JKL33]

The supermarket/open checkstand tap is, at its core, an attempt to get someone's attention to offer or demonstrate courtesy/fairness.

I'm really not a fan of using hyperbole as a tool ("lateral violence" being the obvious example) but the action in the OP is much more of the "I don't like this and you're gonna pay!" variety than the "Hey, mate - there's another lane open" variety. This wasn't to get anyone's attention for the sake of courtesy. Stories like the OP can be associated with folks whose MO is generally abusive; they lash out at whomever is near-by whenever life doesn't suit their wholly irrational sensibilities. And it is 100% irrational to push the hand of someone who, for pre-planned therapeutic purposes, is holding a sharp object inserted into one's child. Meanwhile, 2- and 3-year olds can successfully learn to "use your words."

In lieu of hyperbole, I would be quite in favor of an authority figure addressing the issue by saying, "Your child's crying is neither indication nor proof of any wrongdoing or actual harm. We will be happy to talk through your concerns, but you will be removed from the property if at any point you purposely touch another employee."

Forget worrying about correct use of the terms assault, battery, felony, push, tap, abuse. The above works just fine for me.

[amzyRN]

The father had no right to put their hand on you and that might be considered battery in a legal sense, though if you were not harmed physically, I wouldn't report it to the police. I think you handled the situation very well. I think letting the parent know what he did was wrong was also in order. Either you or your charge nurse or someone else needed to inform him that what he did was innappropriate and that that won't be tolerated. All of that can be stated in a polite and respectful way and if he escalates then that's when you call security.

[cleback]

I was taught that if you touch (provide care for) a patient against their will, that constitutes battery. Intent doesnt play a role. A quick Internet search for the legal definition doesn't support that the intent to harm needs to be present. Just the intent to touch.

Kids , 5 year olds, don't have a right to consent, so that's not a good analogy.

[lumbarpain, ADN, RN]

Having family, significant others or friends of any type when you are concentrating on a vital procedure in the same room, I FEEL is not appropriate Its nerve wracking for all involved.....

..however in this world of heavily angered stressed out people, nurses are stuck between a rock and a hard place. I don't mind when family etc is in the room as long as they don't interfere with my job at that time and are pretty much calm, cool and collected...

..some ask a ton of questions which is fine....I like to teach and it helps the significant others do to understand the situation......

, some hang over you interfering with your job, some are just plain ignorant to the fact that this is an extremely important part of care for the patient and YOU Need to concentrate be extremely careful for yourself and the patients welfare...... I am a LTC RN and have experienced incredible anger, cursing, and out of control family to the point of me being fed up with it all.....I am burned out...and some patients are very taxing also..demanding ..want to be number one and cant wait a few seconds for a simple thing like a cup of coffee..... etc when it came to procedures done by staff....even simple changing can be a big fiasco if they feel you aren't doing it properly....at times you just feel like handing them everything and say..OK YOU DO IT THEN IF YOU THINK YOU CAN DO A BETTER JOB.......but.....we cant do this...although many times its been on the tip of my tonque......hope all worked out for you..

[lumbarpain, ADN, RN]

And having been a nurse that had recently been attacked by a demented resident which has never happened to me before in my 30 years of nursing.....It takes you back a few steps. especially when management thinks its funny that you got attacked by a 6 foot tall man who has long arms and punches you in the chest and grabs you by the neckline of your uniform lifting you off the chair you are sitting on.!!!!!!.........I don't get paid enough to be hurt on the job like this when management thinks its humerous and they laugh and blame it on the mans dementia....which at times BTW...he does speak calmly and coherently at times......and all this was because he thought something was in his water pitcher....which was not. so I can relate to you absolutely...some people needs those clown punching bags in their rooms...don't you think?

[humerusRN, BSN]

I am a pediatric nurse in a large children's hospital... and I'm trying to decide how I would react in this situation. I will say - working in pediatrics, you really do take care of the whole family unit, not just the child. It is a struggle at the best of times. Security is our best friend... because in this situation, where emotions are high, and there is that feeling of a loss of control and fear.... people tend to do stupid stuff. I have called security for a myriad of reasons.... a 9 year old threatening to kill me and himself, parents raising their voices at each other - you get the drift. But I am not sure in this situation, I would have called security. In my time as a pediatric nurse (which is what I am, all I have ever been or will be, adults are gross. LOL), I have gotten very good at using my assertiveness and putting people back in their place. Sometimes, a parent needs that kind of swift reminder that hey: I am here to help your child. They get caught up in this fear cycle. They have no control over this terrible situation that their child is in, so sometimes that gets taken out on me.

Now, putting your hands on my with a violent or sexual intent is an entirely different ballgame. I will have you arrested in a millisecond. But that doesn't seem to be the case from what I am reading from the OP. Sure, this wasn't the brightest or safest reaction from Dad, but you have to remember: these people aren't medical people. He didn't have the intent of causing a needle stick or hurting the nurse or anything else. Nor did he realize what risks his behavior carried. He had the intent to protect his child from what he saw as unnecessary pain.

I think in this situation, I would have looked that parent in the eye and told him point blank... Sir, do not touch me. This IV is necessary for XYZ. It is your right as a parent to refuse this procedure. But please understand that I am here to do my job, and that job is to care for your child.

Then I would pass the info on to the charge RN, who would follow up and give some stern reminders to this dad and then together we would figure out a plan. Let's be honest, if he was this pissed at my IV starting skills, he is going to be just as pissed at the next RN who comes in behind me.

I want to know why, if given the option between PO push fluids and PO meds and IVF and meds - WHY did these parents choose the invasive option in the first place? And why did the RN lay it out as a choice? As an RN, if the child doesn't NEED IVF and meds and can easily tolerate PO - I am going to advocate for THAT, because it is in the best interests of my patient. No one wants to poke a 6 month old baby if they don't need to. I'd have been on the phone with the physicians before ever attempting that IV. If a child's condition is compatible with PO fluids and meds, there is zero need for an IV.