After what year can an RN student work as an LPN?

[newstudentinbc]

Is it after the first year or second? Is it even working as an LPN or do you work as a nursing student? I'm trying to decide if I should go the LPN route and further down the road go for my RN or just apply for the RN and do that. My only concern is that we have a young family that we wanted to expand in the next couple of years, but we wouldn't be able to do that if I'm in the RN program.

Thanks for any info! :)

[Fiona59]

http://clpna.com/Applicants/NewGraduates/tabid/72/Default.aspx

Eligibility to write the Canadian Practical Nurse Registration Examination (CPNRE) on a specific exam date is based on a practical nurse program

I don't see how completing part of the RN program gets you around this requirement.

[linzz]

You guys out in BC and Alberta are very lucky to still have employed student nurse programs. Many Ontario hospitals have cancelled those programs but they still are offering the 7 months of full time work after you graduate as RN or RPN.

I have heard that there are still some hospitals in Ottawa that still offer the ESN programs but Toronto as a whole is really hurting right now.

[Fiona59]

Not really Linzz.

The employed student programme is not that great for staff. In my hospital they are called UNE's. They can take a maximum of a four patient assignment. Most manage three very easy patients. They can pick their shifts so they only work between 07 and 19. Although they can work year round, the majority only work from the middle of June to the middle of August. So for roughly eight weeks, the regular part time staff are unable to pick up extra hours. Some of the full timers are sent home because the UNEs are on the floor and there are "too" many staff available. So we can't book vacation when we want but are forced to take vacation hours to make the staff hours work.

When they get an assignment they don't like we hear about it.

For most of us, it's just like having another group of students on the floor BUT without an instructor to answer their questions, so it's more unpaid teaching time for the regulars.

[linzz]

Hi Fiona59:

I never thought of it that way but I can certainly understand why the staff would really dislike this. I know I would not be happy to make those types of sacrifices. What a lot of tension that must create when an ESN complains about their assignment.

Sounds like a good deal for students, but not for the staff at all. I guess, we in Ontario often idealize what life is like out in Western Canada, so a reality check is a good thing.

[Valhalla_Pure]

Hey Fiona59,

Thanks for the update on the student nurse employment program in Alberta. It sounds like there are some similarities and differences between that program and the British Columbia ESN program. For example, ESNs are always considered supernumerary staff and can never replace regular staff (full time or part time) for shifts. BC only allows a maximum of two ESNs to work per given shift (days and nights) so the ward is not overrun with students. While it was up to us to pick our shifts, our manager indicated that staff would have the best experience with students if they worked both days and nights, weekdays and weekends. I have done this and its a great way to let the staff get to know you and your skill level.

Most of the nurses I have worked with have given positive feedback regarding having ESNs on the ward, espeically when it gets busy. But if it is a slow shift and not much is happening, the ward can feel a bit overcrowded. ESNs also are often at different levels of completion of their program, and as a result often have different skills sets. I understand it must be frustrating to act as an 'Instructor" role when it is not your responsibility to do so. In fact, it states in our ESN handbooks that we are "employees first, learners second" and that it is not our RNs job to teach us. But invariably I am sure the happens on some level.

Thanks again for your update! And good luck to the OP in making a decision.

[Heddytexas]

I don't know about other states but in Texas you can exit out of an ADN program at two different points before you finish your RN Associates Degree. You can exit out after the first semester and take your CNA exam to become a nursing assistant/PCA or you can exit out after your first year and take the NCLEX-PN exam to become an LVN. You have to take a few LVN electives during your first year but I'm certain you can become an LVN after one year of nursing school in Texas. Regarding your student nurse question... The hospitals here don't have jobs posted for "Student Nurse" as far as I know. But after your first semester you will be qualified to work as a CNA and after your first year as a PCT/LVN if you take the exam. Hope this helps!

[Silverdragon102, BSN]

I don't know about other states but in Texas you can exit out of an ADN program at two different points before you finish your RN Associates Degree. You can exit out after the first semester and take your CNA exam to become a nursing assistant/PCA or you can exit out after your first year and take the NCLEX-PN exam to become an LVN. You have to take a few LVN electives during your first year but I'm certain you can become an LVN after one year of nursing school in Texas. Regarding your student nurse question... The hospitals here don't have jobs posted for "Student Nurse" as far as I know. But after your first semester you will be qualified to work as a CNA and after your first year as a PCT/LVN if you take the exam. Hope this helps!

The poster is in Canada and things can be different to the states

[loriangel14, RN]

I am pretty sure it is different in Canada, at least in Ontario, since our PN education is 5 semesters, longer than the PN courses in the US.

[dishes, BSN, RN]

newstudentinbc, as someone who juggled,working fulltime, school and being a parent I would recommend going straight for the BScN and increase your family after you are working for a year. Financially and emotionally this will be less juggling then, going for the LPN, having more children, working as an LPN, and working on the BScN. Just my

[Heather56]

I'm sorry Fiona59 has had such bad experiences with ESNs. We have had them in the er I work in and, although there can be exceptions, generally they are very helpful.

I would certainly recommend going for your RN and forgetting the LPN route.

Good Luck and maybe our paths will cross at some point!

[OgopogoLPN, LPN, RN]

http://clpna.com/Applicants/NewGraduates/tabid/72/Default.aspx

Eligibility to write the Canadian Practical Nurse Registration Examination (CPNRE) on a specific exam date is based on a practical nurse program

I don't see how completing part of the RN program gets you around this requirement.

BScN students can write the LPN exam after 2nd year. I imagine they have to submit their application to the CLPNBC, but it's somewhat common here. I worked with an LPN the other day who is going into her 4th year and took the LPN exam after her 2nd year.

Not really Linzz.

The employed student programme is not that great for staff. In my hospital they are called UNE's. They can take a maximum of a four patient assignment. Most manage three very easy patients. They can pick their shifts so they only work between 07 and 19. Although they can work year round, the majority only work from the middle of June to the middle of August. So for roughly eight weeks, the regular part time staff are unable to pick up extra hours. Some of the full timers are sent home because the UNEs are on the floor and there are "too" many staff available. So we can't book vacation when we want but are forced to take vacation hours to make the staff hours work.

When they get an assignment they don't like we hear about it.

For most of us, it's just like having another group of students on the floor BUT without an instructor to answer their questions, so it's more unpaid teaching time for the regulars.

We have ESN's on my surgical floor at the hospital and for the most part, they are great!!! Maybe it's just because I get along with them personally, but I also really value having them work with us. I find it great to have extra hands when it's busy. But also, it's a mutual respect. I can learn from them, but also, I've been on my floor for almost a year and know more about certain aspects, procedures and skills than they do. They appreciate my knowledge and are happy to learn from me, an LPN. I will be sad to see them off our floor in a few weeks :)

[NotReady4PrimeTime, RN]

This is where comparing educational programming and licensing requirements becomes a bit of a quagmire. Every province is going to do things their own way. Perhaps it might be useful to preface remarks in these sorts of threads by stating where you're from first off so the person looking for information doesn't become overwhelmed and confused by the grab bag of responses.

Just as a comment on Fiona's description of what is currently happening in Alberta as relates to the Undergraduate Nurse Employees... Because Alberta Health Services has decided there is no nursing shortage in Alberta and therefore there will be no new hires, only a redistribution of existing health human resources, many wards in the province are significantly short staffed. At major urban hospitals there will always be at least an RN or LPN to supervise the UNE, (which is why the regular staff are not being offered the extra shifts or are being sent home... they cost a LOT more) but in rural areas and even the suburban community hospitals UNEs are replacing the licensed personnel and working without supervision. This is a disaster waiting to happen. Kaaren Neufeld, the president of the Canadian Nurses' Association has publicly chastised the minister of health for this misdistribution of health care human resources. Not that he's likely to care what "some woman in Ottawa who's just a nurse" has to say.