Advocate Jane Fonda, International Council of Nurses

rncountry · Jun 16, 2001

Would like to just recommend another good book regarding stories like the one you posted Julie. It is called "Stolen Valor, How the Vietnam Generation was Robbed of it's Heroes and it's History." This is a long book, but it is worth reading just to understand how many unscrupulous people out there took advantage of stories that were often stretched from the war for their own gain. Be it for money, prestige or the need to have attention. It is written by a vet, and is very informative.

Unfortunately all wars have horrible atrocities committed. The march to Bataan comes to mind. The rape of Nanking. One only has to think Nazi's and a whole world of images come into a persons head that are horrid. You can go into the history of every war and find it. I am not saying that what Jane Fonda did during the war was correct, I am saying that forgiveness is the biggest healer there is. If anyone also bothers to read the book that I posted you will find that many of the "facts" we take for granted about the war are not facts. They were stories used for sensationalism purposes, exaggerated and stretched almost beyond recogition in may instances. I don't mean POW stories. John McCain can testify to that. However what the vets in POW camps in North Vietnam experienced have been experienced by vets in WWII, in WWI, in the civil war and right on down. I do not negate what they went through by saying this, OK? What I am saying is that it happens in all wars, the difference this time around is the ability to have that suffering brought into our living rooms for the first time in history through the TV media. It contibutes to the mental images we have of the war, in the same way that WWII is perceived by us a the "good war" fought for a good reason yes. However our images of that war are of victorous troops with people welcoming them with open arms. Remember the images from that time were santized and censored by the government because there could not be a loss of morale. Right, wrong or indifferent that is what happened. And please recall that America pulled out of Vietnam in 1975, abandoning the embassary at that point, if I remember correctly the last combat troops were pulled from the area about a year to a year and a half before that. Troops left were for protection, not for missions. The reason I am giving this timeline is because the first incident that you are describing jt notes the year to be 1976. That in itself tells me that something is off there.

The book I am telling you about is well researched, what it presents can be researched if one doubts what is in it. As is illustrated from the story Carrigan story, if one takes a little time to look into all the things that have been said occured regardless of rather it involved Jane Fonda or not, much of it would be shown to be little more than sensationalism at it's worst. Often there is little more than a grain of truth in it, and sometimes not even that. While one may not like Jane Fonda, she is also not quite the demon that some would make her out to be.

Thanks Helen

-jt · Jun 16, 2001

and when all that is said & done, Id still like to know where the heck she came from, what she has to do with nursing, and how did she get involved with us? why is she presenting to the ICN when the American Federation of Armed Forces Nurses is a part of that group?

If she was a nurse, I could maybe make some sense of it but I just dont see the rationale for having this particular actress as a nurse advocate. Did she play a nurse on TV or something? Is her daughter a nurse? I just dont get it. And I certainly dont understand what her 3 failed marriages & Christ have to do with nursing or being discussed at the International Nurses World Congress. I dont think she was an appropriate choice. If they felt the need to have a celebrity as an advocate, to increase exposure or whatever, they could have made a better choice & used a celebrity who is, in the public mind, strongly identified with nursing - any one of the nurses on shows like ER, for instance, or even Ben Stiller might have worked!

(he was an RN in the Deniro hit movie "Meet the Parents" AND he's funny!)

Chellyse · Jun 16, 2001

First Helen that looks like an interesting book to read. Who is the author?

Second, Jt the only thing I have been able to gather from the ICN website is that Jane Fonda was invited to speak regarding "the female child" in reference I believe to female mutilation and other atrocities to the council congress. Just how Nursing Spectrum offered and she recieved a grant,I have not an answer. Obvious that she must have become involved before the June 13 Council session, I would contact Nursing Spectrum and see what answers you get. Maybe becaus of her feminist history and Nursing looked upon as a female dominated profession.

I do however agree that we could run with the "lightening rod" and the publicity to the cause that may follow. However I also see this as being another divisionary point. Certainly, her name alone conjures many negative thoughts in the minds of veterans.

On the other side of the coin, she may have a large christian following with her announced "born again salvation" 3 years ago.

I would be interested in how she became involved, and I also believe in forgiveness and value what Helen presented.

The letter from the veteran nurse was pivitol.It is relevant that if the Armed Forces (Nurses) are involved and also the ANA and many other large associations for Nurses that they were well aware she would be there and representing the profession.Share what you find out on the issue.

Michele

natalie · Jun 16, 2001

Originally posted by kday:
Untrue stories or not, the fact remains, she has NEVER, EVER apologized for her actions, or even HINTED that they were wrong. Therefore, she has not 'changed' and 'grown.' She is still juvenile (rejoicing about 3 failed marriages?? hello??), immature, self-centered, and has no respect or reverence for military personnel in this country. Lest she forget, it's the military folks she slapped in the face all those years ago who put their lives on the line so people like HER could have the right to shoot their mouths off. She gets no respect or acknowledgement from me.

Hi Kday,

I'm not a big defender of Jane Fonda and don't really appreciate her involvement with nursing. She absolutely has apologized, and on national TV, several times. That was about 10 years ago or so?

fiestynurse · Jun 16, 2001

Actually, she did publicly apologize a few years back, but it came way too late for many Vietnam vets. Many feel that she should have been tried as a traitor and put to death. She got off easy because of her celebrity status. Many young people crossed the line when protesting the Vietnam war and spent time in jail for it. Jane never spent one day in jail for humilating and jeopardizing the lives of American soldiers that we sent over there. I grew-up in a military family, also. I personally do not want Hanoi Jane representing nurses in any way.

[ June 16, 2001: Message edited by: feistynurse ]

valk · Jun 16, 2001

How sad that Nursing Spectrum feels the need to offer a grant to Jane Fonda to attend the International Council of Nurses. Has she demonstrated good judgement, consistency, any evidence of an ability to think independently? No! Her actions depend upon the man to whom she is attached.

There are many excellent nurses who would have been thrilled to attend such an event.

This is an insult to all nurses. MNSHA

Chellyse · Jun 17, 2001

Anyone out there know what kind of involvement Ganett Inc. and Ted Turner have or had as the case may be? If no involvement they have to be huge competitors, Gannet owns many publications and news programs including USAToday.

I am checking the ICN site to see the results of the Congress and a more detailed speech from Jane Fonda. I will post it when I find it.

Michele

CaronRN58 · Jun 17, 2001

Here's the address of Jane Fonda's speech; http://www.icn.ch/speechfonda.htm

CaronRN58

fergus51 · Jun 17, 2001

Alright, I was not born and raised in the US (though I do have citizenship) so I don't pretend to understand the American people's feelings about Vietnam.

But, what I don't get is all the anger aimed at a 2 bit celebrity who protested a war that a lot of other americans protested too. I think she gets too much attention. The real bad guys in my opinion are the men who continued to send America's sons and daughters to fight a pointless war that couldn't be won. I always felt more strongly against the gov't that continued to escalate the conflict than I did hippy protesters (even though I disagree with SO much of what they did too).

And I think any citizen can be a good advocate for nurses regardless of their ties to the profession. Health care concerns everyone.

Chellyse · Jun 17, 2001

Thanks for the link to the speech. Here is the closing quote by Jane Fonda,

"In closing I want to touch upon your profession itself. Nurses and midwives are the centrepiece, the very foundation, of a country's health care. Without you, health care would collapse and, just as these is no longer recognises national borders, so health care has become global. So this is a global issue, this issue of the importance of nurses. But you are a predominantly female profession, which means that like all mainly female professions, including the work of housewives, you are marginalised, trivialised, over-worked, underpaid and made to feel guilty if you complain about it or organise around it. It's the "women-are-selfish-if-they-think-about-their-own-well-being" syndrome and its as old as the garden of Eden and nurses seem to get accused of its more than any other women's profession: "How dead they go on strike when there sick people…" You know the litany better than I do. It has got to stop! In and it can. You have enormous numbers, 2.6 million just in the United States, and more than 12 million worldwide. If you borrow a page from the women's movement, better yet, collaborate with your country's women's movement, and translate your numbers into political clout, you can demand the economic and political respect to deserve. You can make governments in their responsibility to nurses as a basic national investment.

Go for it!

For your sake and for the girls."

Tim-GNP · Jun 18, 2001

I know that veterns of the Vietnam era have little use for Jane Fonda and many refer to her as a traitor.

As for me... I will always think of her as "Barbarella."

duckie · Jun 18, 2001

I believe we should forgive as God expects us to, BUT, if you were divorced from a spouse that had beaten and abused you for years, perhaps you could forgive that BUT would you want to associate with him or have him included in a part of your life that you considered important? What Jane Fonda did during the war is between her and God, BUT I don't feel she can represent the nursing profession with dignity as she has caused hurt and harm that cannot be undone for many. Many of the stories going around the internet are just stories that someone made up about her, but some things, like her picture in a plane with enemy soldiers cannot be misunderstood. I want to be certain of the character of people on my team.....hers leaves much to be desired. Yes, we all do things when we are young and many live with the effects for the rest of their lives....this is her burden, caused by the choices she made. She wasn't forced to do what she did, it was her choice and to every action there is a consequence, this is hers. I guess this is why our parents have always said to be careful of what you do for you may have to live with it for a long time. I absolutely do not know how she can look at the faces of the men that fought in Vietnam and not feel shame for betraying them. They didn't want to be there either but did it because they were told it was their duty. Many vets came home to be spit on, made to feel worthless, and she did her part to make sure they didn't get any breaks. I wonder what the statistics are on the guys whose lives were ruined because of this war??? Many today still do no function normally and they will forever be haunted. I'm sorry but I just cannot see what she can do for nurses....she just doesn't seem trust worthy to me!