is the advisor right?

Canadian_Nurse · Apr 9, 2008

In a word, no.

leslie :-D · Apr 9, 2008

hmmmm...

i don't think there is an absolute answer to this.

there is more than 1 quality that makes a competent nurse.

sometimes, being compassionate and empathetic, are not enough.

a nurse needs to have a solid foundation in a&p.

if i were a pt, i'd have serious reservations in having a nurse that had flunked those classes.

is it too late for tutoring?

leslie

annaedRN, RN · Apr 9, 2008

I think your advisor needs to take a class in effective communication! But, I think the gist of what she meant was that while A&P is very hard, nursing school is harder...

There is ALOT of studying to do, but I have seen the "A" students fail out of nursing school because they think they can do it..while the average student who seeks out help, is not afraid to use tutors and approach the instructors for advice come out okay. That does not mean it will be easy, but anything worthwhile doing is worth putting in 100%. I wish you and your friend all the best!

jessiern, BSN, RN · Apr 9, 2008

Seems to me what she meant was that a lot of nursing builds on what you learn in A&P-I would think it is without a doubt the most important pre-reg class. I'm not going to say it isn't possible to pass nursing classes if she is having that much trouble in A&P, but it would be very difficult. Some of the same concepts that she is struggling with now we be present in the nursing classes as well.

love_being_an_aide · Apr 10, 2008

I work with a nurse on my floor who told me that she failed a&p and had to retake it in order to advance in her program. She struggled so much with her classes, but she pulled through, and she is one of the best nurses I know. Failing a class does not mean you do not know the material, contrary to what people think. I remember when I was in college and I was struggling so much with one of my classes (i'm not in nursing school, I was majoring in something else) and I ended up with a D in the class, but I learned SOOO much from the class. The grade doesn't and never will define what a person knows. You learn from doing, and some people struggle with classes and are more hands on learners. So no, I think you're friend should not let this instructor discourage her at all. Instead, I would advise her to seek help from someone else who is more understanding. Failing a class does not mean you won't be a good nurse, just like failing a history class as a teaching major doesn't mean you can't teach history. Just my thought.

bagladyrn, RN · Apr 10, 2008

To fail a class once doesn't mean you are not cut out for nursing. You may need to retake that class. What may be meant here is that you cannot complete the nursing program without the A&P credit. For any class that is particularly difficult for you, try taking it as a summer (or winter intersession class where that is the only class you are taking so that you can concentrate on just that.

clhRN2b2010 · Apr 10, 2008

I would say that the bottom line is she needs to know the material covered in A&P in order to understand the concepts that will be coming at her in NS. Does ones grade in any given class best represent their knowledge base of that material? Well, that arguement has been going on forever. It could be the teacher's style or testing taking skills.

There is a reason that any nursing program you look at requires their students have a solid background in Anatomy and Physiology.

Whatever happens, don't...I repeat DON'T let her struggles in any way taint your expectations. I have allowed that before. I had friends who said Micro was the hardest class ever. One very bright friend said "You know me, I get A's in everything...and I got a B in Micro. It's just that hard." Well, I dreaded Micro, even so much as to doubt whether I could do this nursing thing at all (sound familiar? :rolleyes: ) Guess what? I have Micro this semester and so far have somewhere around a 95% average. I just love it! Who knew it would be so cool! Now I'm wondering if there isn't some research lab nurse inside of me after all!

My point is, try not to let other's experiences influence yours, even when they are someone you respect and admire. Each of us are so very unique.

santhony44, MSN, RN, NP · Apr 10, 2008

That's a pretty broad generalization.

One of the absolute worst professors I ever had was in my A&P class. This was a two-quarter class, crammed into a summer quarter (over 20 years ago, now). The professor who normally taught it was awarded a grant to do research over the summer, out of state, right before the class started, so the school had to scramble to find someone to teach it. They found a guy who normally taught physiology at a medical school. Wow! Great! Right??

Wrong!!!!

He was awful. He read to us in class. Out of the text. The whole quarter.

If you asked a question, he re-read the pertinent portion of the text.

He knew no more about the cat in the dissection lab than we did. The (undergraduate) lab assistant basically got all of us through the lab.

I don't recall, now, how many people passed and how many failed, if I even knew at the time. Would I say that anyone who failed that class was not cut out to be a nurse? Absolutely not! I think it's pretty amazing any of us got through it, actually, given the circumstances.

I've also had other classes where the teacher's style of teaching and my style of learning just did not seem to mesh well. I had a chemistry teacher like that in high school- nice guy, but he could've been speaking Greek. My mother got a cousin to tutor me. He kept saying "I don't understand why you're having so much trouble in class, you aren't having any trouble when I explain it to you!" I said "When you explain it, it makes sense!"

So. If the girl you are talking about fails, I'd suggest she take it again with a different professor. It may make a night-and-day difference. Also, don't worry that because she's having so much trouble, you will, too. Good luck to you both.

Penguin67 · Apr 10, 2008

While I agree with most of the replies to the question, I have to interject some research findings into this discussion. If you fail a class, it doesn't mean that you aren't cut out for nursing. It means that you are missing a portion of foundational content that you will build on in your nursing program and need for your nursing career, and you have some deficit. Some can overcome that, and some can't. Depends upon the person.

I worked with some nurse educators who conducted a retrospective (aka review of grades) study that sought to correlate grades with NCLEX success (ie pass or fail on first attempt). They found that there were two nursing courses in which the grades were highly predictive of NCLEX success: Pathophysiology and Adult Health (aka med-surg). In other words, making a C or below in those courses put the student at high risk for NCLEX failure. Granted, it was a convenience study of students who were enrolled in the program where the resarchers worked, so you can't

technically generalize beyond that population, however, I have found pretty much the same thing in all 3 nursing programs where I have worked. The take away from that study, for me as an educator, is that there is important foundational information that is a "must" to understand in order to increase nursing knowledge. Just a little bit of evidence based practive results for you. There is usually alot of articles that correlate NCLEX success with courses (pre and nursing courses) in journals like Nurse Educator and Journal of Professional Nursing, if anyone is interested in anything current.

lainith · Apr 10, 2008

For my sake I hope it's not true. I study ALL the time and am barely passing my A&PII class right now. I feel like I know the material in class and then when it comes to test time, the questions seem so confusing. And I never seem to have enough time for the exams. Our instructor insists on giving them on Mondays, when we only have an hour, and he spends about 20 minutes talking beforehand. Many of us have Micro and Nutrition afterwards and have to rush through. We've all discussed this with him but he won't budge.

I know that I am a good student and I am a good learner. I am just praying to pass this class so that I can continue, since I have already been admitted into the NP at my school. I just don't think that this class is a good indication of the types of classes that will be coming, which are more about critical thinking than pure memorization. I hope I'm right...

Good luck! It's a tough class.

pagandeva2000, LPN · Apr 10, 2008

From what I have witnessed, entering nursing school is so competitive, that getting anything lower than a B seriously impairs someone's chances of entering the program, and even if allowed to repeat, the second grade is averaged in with the first and can still bring down the GPA...it is like combining a B and a D grade together...can give a person a C- or C.

While I attended an LPN program, it was a bridge, so, we had to take many of the same pre-requisites as the RN competitors...sat right beside them in many classes, including anatomy. I felt that the class was a nightmare, personally. I did earn a B- for anatomy 1 and B for anatomy 2. It does help with nursing, though...but, at least for me, they could have left the intricate details out of it for me to get the picture of the disease process.