Advice on creepy doctors?

allnurses Guide · Apr 27, 2015

You need to start keeping a log with dates. times and actions so you have some kind of proof. Then you need to go to HR and say that you plan to file a sexual Harassment lawsuit if it continues to happen. I am not sure what the laws are in Canada . But there must be some recourse for you. At my facility we have to take a sexual harassment training every two years.

macawake, MSN · Apr 27, 2015

Should I do something, or am I over reacting and should just ignore it?

It always saddens and somewhat angers me to see a woman ask a question like yours. Of course you aren't overreacting. Assuming you're not secretly attracted to the guy and actually want to have an intimate relationship with him (and I'm not getting the impression that you do), you have every right to expect to not be subjected to his "amorous" advances. Your body is yours, it's not communal property.

one of the drs I regularly work with approached me and asked if i wanted to go out for dinner or drinks sometime. I made a joke about my husband probably not appreciating that

I see this a lot in women. I think perhaps because women are traditionally raised to be carers/pleasers/nurturers they often find it awkward to just say no with a neutral face. I often see women in awkward or embarrassing situations, smiling or joking to sort of try to "soften the blow" of the rejection/message they're sending.

Also by declining his invitation by referring to your husband's likely disapproval of a dinner date, it makes it easy for a predatory type like this doctor to say to himself that you might still be interested in him. People like this need a straight and unambiguous message. In my opinion it needs to be "I'm not interested in going out with you". You need to own that standpoint. That alone might unfortunately not be enough to make him back off. He's already proven that he's willing to cross lines both regarding socially acceptable behavior and legalities.

it has escalated to him ....... standing behind me as i was bending over and putting his hands on my hips and pulling me against him.

(partial/edited quote)

This isn't just a question for the "higher-ups".. I'm shocked that they've been informed and you've been told to ignore it. Is it possible to talk to someone else in human resources or management? Anyway, I'm not familiar with Canadian law but I have to think that his behavior has actually entered the realm of illegal and not "just" inappropriate workplace behavior. If this happened to me, I would file a police report. I can't give you legal advice (against TOS), but I'm also hesitant to do so since I don't have all the details about this physician. I'm not a psych nurse and diagnosing from long-distance from a written account of events, can't be done. However, it's been my experience that people who behave like this doctor usually have anti-social and/or narcissistic character traits.

I have told him multiple times now that I'm not interested, and would prefer if our relationship was nothing but professional but every time he dismisses me.

When has this happened? Has there been witnesses or does he usually corner you when the two of you are alone? If at all possible, I would try to avoid ever being alone with the guy. Inform your co-workers of what's going on. If there are witnesses, are they willing to support you if this goes further (legally speaking)? Do you know if he has a history of inappropriate behavior involving other women? Men who behave like this guy often have a pattern of doing it, it's seldom (if ever) a one-off.

When you tell him no, be clear and succinct. Don't speak quietly out of fear of drawing attention to yourself. He's the one behaving badly, you have nothing to be ashamed about. You haven't included details surrounding the situations where he's been harrassing you, so you may already have done all these things.

And my husband definitely knows, he's offered to key his car a few times, which is very tempting...

I wouldn't do that. As tempting as it may be, fighting illegal behavior with illegal behavior of your own, is seldom a good idea.

I'm sorry this is happening to you, OP.

macawake, MSN · Apr 27, 2015

Accept his invitation. And make sure when he gets to the restaurant, he finds you at the table with your husband and a few of his beefiest friends. He will get the message.

I have to disagree with this advice. None of us here know enough about the predatory physician to know if he'll be scared off by intimidation/flexing of muscles. We have no way of knowing how he'd react. Some predators will feel intimidated, abandon pursuit of OP and start looking for an easier target. Others might take the humiliation of first being tricked into believing that OP was interested in him, only to meet the "muscle welcoming-committee", out on the woman that "fooled" him. The whole thing could easily backfire.

ForeverDreaming · Apr 27, 2015

It's disgusting to continuously see people with authority using their positions to take advantage of others. In all facets of life, this practice is present and immoral. I'm sorry that you're going through this, and I hope whatever steps you take help to alleviate the situation promptly. Good luck!

brido · Apr 27, 2015

I have to wonder what makes him feel like he can put his hands on your hips and pull you against him ? My coworkers wouldn't go beyond a hug without my permission. I'm sorry, I just realized that OP is in Canada. Perhaps they are not as litigious and "I'm being bullied/harassed" happy as the US.

He is a predator, sexual offender, whatever you want to call it. He is entitled, therefore, he thinks he has the right to put his hands on her and assault her. I hope you're not implying that somehow the OP is allowing him to do this?

Please report this OP. You are NOT overreacting. I know how traumatic this is, but it needs to be reported. I'm sure you're not the only one who is going through this.

brido · Apr 27, 2015

Accept his invitation. And make sure when he gets to the restaurant, he finds you at the table with your husband and a few of his beefiest friends. He will get the message.

I disagree. Predators don't "get the message." This can totally backfire or he will just continue to harass/assault the OP when her husband isn't around.

SmilingBluEyes · Apr 27, 2015

Here is a story for you: I had a doctor grab me from behind my first few days out of the gate. I turned around and told him "HANDS OFF I am not a doctor toy!". He backed off immediately. He was a well-respected doctor in this town for a long time. So I did not take it up any channels and he never bothered me again.

Where am I going with this? Well he had affairs with several nurses and harassed more. He turned out to be a predator of the highest order, having been arrested and jailed for child molestation of kids under 12.

If I had it to do over, I still would have confronted him but then reported it up the channels accordingly. I got him to back off and I thought that was enough. Not for this pervert.

YEP you read that right; he exposed himself to children under 12 in his own home. A sicko.

So this guy harassing you is very likely a deviant mind and needs to be STOPPED ASAP.

NO GAMES. Whoever suggested that silliness about meeting him with your husband, surely you are not serious! Nope. Go the HR route and don't stop til you get satisfaction. He will do it to others, guaranteed. Stop him in his tracks.

brido · Apr 27, 2015

It always saddens and somewhat angers me to see a woman ask a question like yours. Of course you aren't overreacting. Assuming you're not secretly attracted to the guy and actually want to have an intimate relationship with him (and I'm not getting the impression that you do), you have every right to expect to not be subjected to his "amorous" advances. Your body is yours, it's not communal property.
I see this a lot in women. I think perhaps because women are traditionally raised to be carers/pleasers/nurturers they often find it awkward to just say no with a neutral face. I often see women in awkward or embarrassing situations, smiling or joking to sort of try to "soften the blow" of the rejection/message they're sending.
Also by declining his invitation by referring to your husband's likely disapproval of a dinner date, it makes it easy for a predatory type like this doctor to say to himself that you might still be interested in him. People like this need a straight and unambiguous message. In my opinion it needs to be "I'm not interested in going out with you". You need to own that standpoint. That alone might unfortunately not be enough to make him back off. He's already proven that he's willing to cross lines both regarding socially acceptable behavior and legalities.
(partial/edited quote)
This isn't just a question for the "higher-ups".. I'm shocked that they've been informed and you've been told to ignore it. Is it possible to talk to someone else in human resources or management? Anyway, I'm not familiar with Canadian law but I have to think that his behavior has actually entered the realm of illegal and not "just" inappropriate workplace behavior. If this happened to me, I would file a police report. I can't give you legal advice (against TOS), but I'm also hesitant to do so since I don't have all the details about this physician. I'm not a psych nurse and diagnosing from long-distance from a written account of events, can't be done. However, it's been my experience that people who behave like this doctor usually have anti-social and/or narcissistic character traits.
When has this happened? Has there been witnesses or does he usually corner you when the two of you are alone? If at all possible, I would try to avoid ever being alone with the guy. Inform your co-workers of what's going on. If there are witnesses, are they willing to support you if this goes further (legally speaking)? Do you know if he has a history of inappropriate behavior involving other women? Men who behave like this guy often have a pattern of doing it, it's seldom (if ever) a one-off.
When you tell him no, be clear and succinct. Don't speak quietly out of fear of drawing attention to yourself. He's the one behaving badly, you have nothing to be ashamed about. You haven't included details surrounding the situations where he's been harrassing you, so you may already have done all these things.
I wouldn't do that. As tempting as it may be, fighting illegal behavior with illegal behavior of your own, is seldom a good idea.
I'm sorry this is happening to you, OP.

Thank you! Perfectly said, macawake. It's everything I wanted to say, but I'm not that articulate :-)

KatieMI, BSN, MSN, RN · Apr 27, 2015

First and foremost,

GET OUT OF THERE AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.

Predators do not get cues. They do not stop till they get what they want. If you were told to figure it all out by yourself by your manager, it means that the local politicking permits and probably encourages sexual harrassment.

You should choose between losing this job or losing your husband and, quite potentially, your license and entire career. If your boss is OK with your being grabbed at work, he will be quite content if one beautiful day your narc count doesn't match somehow, or if Boards get a letter from the wife of that doctor accusing you in improper behavior.

So, PLEASE run.

In the meantime, refuse assignments for this doc's patients. If you are forced to take them, document it and keep the paperwork. Start searching for a lawyer. Read your State's laws regulating recording laws and, if at all possible, record in any form every contact with this doc and with your boss regarding the issue. A lawyer can ask for court motion to give you right to record on audio in spite of HIPPAA, if you express any concerns about your personal safety or health, physical or mental. It can be done in 24 hours, if necessary. Make an appointment with your primary care, tell him that you are constantly attacked and that cause you symptoms like insomnia, anxiety, headaches... whatever, your goal is to get it documented. Under no circumstances, absolutely, do not speak with this doc, your boss, or any other else regarding this abuse alone or in closed room. If you need to speak with them, for any reason, do it where other people are, and record their names for yourself. Do not relay on hotlines or anything corporate, all these "anonimous hotlines" are here just because companues required by the law to have them, they are definitely not anonimous and won't prorect a lowly nurse over doctor. Do not do anything provoking like accepting offers and gifts, and abstain from any problems with the law, like punching this doc's car tires. Same about your husband.

But, first and foremost, get out of that place.

Ruby Vee, BSN · Apr 27, 2015

About a month ago, as I was doing my final check on things and getting ready to head home, one of the drs I regularly work with approached me and asked if i wanted to go out for dinner or drinks sometime. I made a joke about my husband probably not appreciating that and he said 'Maybe another time.'. Fast forward a few weeks, and as I'm walking in in the morning he asks if I'm free that night. I politely decline. It has now been about a month and it has escalated to him putting his arm around my shoulder, to him adjusting the card conveniently over my breast to just today him standing behind me as i was bending over and putting his hands on my hips and pulling me against him. I have told him multiple times now that I'm not interested, and would prefer if our relationship was nothing but professional but every time he dismisses me.
My question is, how do I deal with this? I've tried talking to the higher-ups but I was told that I should get over it. This dr has been working here for much longer than me, and is well respected, there is little chance anyone here would take my side over his.
Should I do something, or am I over reacting and should just ignore it?

You are not overreacting, and ignoring it is not going to help anything. You should have nipped it in the bud the very first time. "Oh, yes! I'd love to meet your wife and have you meet my husband" has always worked for me. I've never had to meet a wife or introduce my husband yet, although the invitations aren't coming very often now that I'm older. As for the touching -- and exaggerated "startle" and jumping away usually works well, too. Don't worry about calling others' attention to the interaction -- believe me, he doesn't want that kind of response to be public. And maybe it's time to stop being polite. "Don't touch me!" or "Oh HELL no!" are effective.

If all else fails, you can always go to H.R., but since that will have consequences for you as well, I'd try to avoid that if possible.

lovinglife2015 · Apr 27, 2015

Keying the car can get you fired lol. I know this may sound immature but have you ever thought about just passing loud gas in his presence? That will usually stop a man's pursuit haha.

Wanting to key the car seems an odd reaction from a husband. Anyway, I digress...

PapaBearRN, BSN · Apr 27, 2015

Wanting to key the car seems an odd reaction from a husband. Anyway, I digress...

Being a male myself, a part of me would love to put my skills to use on this guy, but it would be inappropriate and I don't want a record or risk being denied by the board. A harmless fart goes a long way, specially with a guy who could possibly be narcissistic. Haha