ADN's being pushed out

Nursing Students ADN/BSN

Published

I work for a large Magnet hospital. As nursing becomes more popular, and nurses not in short supply, I have noticed something ominous has being going on lately. Several of our older and very seasoned ADN nurses are being fired. The excuses for firing are ridiculous. I have sadly seen some excellent nurses lose their jobs. I am wondering if they want to get rid of the ADNs so they can look "better" with an all BSN staff. Or perhaps they want rid of older nurses who have been there longer because they are higher on the pay scale. Either way, it is very scarey. I myself am BSN, and i am not ashamed to say that what I know does not hold a candle to these fired nurses. Any thoughts?

Specializes in Critical Care.
Transitioning to a BSN entry and limiting nursing education to a single school are two vastly different things.

They aren't as different as you seem to think they are. It's the same problem just on a different scale (that isn't necessarily a "vastly" different scale).

After all we wouldn't want to worsen the nursing shortage by losing a few bad ADN or BSN programs.

We certainly should weed out the bad ADN and BSN programs. Losing about 55% of our nursing school output is far from what we can afford however.

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Specializes in Nurse Scientist-Research.
Losing about 55% of our nursing school output is far from what we can afford however.

Really? I bet the vast majority of new grads out there might dispute that. Reducing output by 55% is probably too radical and probably wouldn't happen. There are many ADN programs that exist within a few miles of BSN programs and could likely work out coordination to make their programs BSN.

Might see the return of those lovely new grad sign-on bonuses that used to exist.

I'm an ADN grad that wishes there had been a BSN program in my area at the time. There was only a CC but they have now become a State college and issue 4 year degrees, though they continue their ADN program. Could not be difficult to transition that program to BSN. Here locally, we have probably a dozen CCs and also probably 4-5 Universities that offer BSNs. A degree of coordination and partnerships already exist.

But once more, let's rethink if we could afford a decrease in the output of new nurses. Around these parts, the output of RTs, Rad techs and US techs is adjusted yearly according to local needs (can't control for people moving into our area) and the market is not completely flooded with individuals in those fields. Nursing schools are not restricted through due to the "nursing shortage" myth so we are pumping out hundreds more than we need every few months.

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You posted "sites" that "refute" the studies? Blog and forums posts do not "refute" anything unless you have less understanding of the scientific process than common knowledge.

Again, you post three paragraphs of hearsay and no evidence. Good luck with your "report" I am sure it will be national breaking news, though I am willing to bet that the "news agent" and "state representative" are going to insist you name all your anonymous "sources" or else call you out on your fabrication.

There was nothing scientific about the Aiken study. In studying it again, I couldn't even count how many many statements such as; "It was later verified" and "Empirical work has demonstrated" were disseminated all through the study. Yet there was nothing to back those statements up. This study was the poster-child for fabrications. And most educated, free-thinking professionals have seen through this; that is except for liars and those trying to manipulate the gullible and uninformed for their own gain. She was hired to do an advertisement that would get nurses running back to the four year schools. She did have some pretty powerful political and financial backing from organizations such as the ANA, IOM, AACN, AONI as well as the Univ. of Pennsylvania. And even with all that financial backing, our lawmakers saw the study for what it is, propaganda. This is why BSN mandates haven't been made into law. In your mind, only those with large financial backing can critique or refute a study. I'm sure you'll do very well outside the academia bubble when the consolidations start coming full-speed

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Specializes in Clinical Research, Outpt Women's Health.
Transitioning to a BSN entry and limiting nursing education to a single school are two vastly different things.

After all we wouldn't want to worsen the nursing shortage by losing a few bad ADN or BSN programs.

What nursing shortage?

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Specializes in Adult Internal Medicine.
There was nothing scientific about the Aiken study.
Right. Other than it being a large study published in a little scientific peer-reviewed journal called the Journal of the American Medical Association.
In studying it again, I couldn't even count how many many statements such as; "It was later verified" and "Empirical work has demonstrated" were disseminated all through the study.

"It was later verified" was used once. The word "empirical" was used three times: once to describe work done by the AHA, once to describe sequalae of cormorbidities, and once in description of the study itself. All of these uses occur in the first 1/3rd of the paper and are not used throughout the study as you stated.

Yet there was nothing to back those statements up.
There was no reason any of those uses needed to be cited; the one use that could have potentially needed a citation had two listed.

This study was the poster-child for fabrications. And most educated, free-thinking professionals have seen through this; that is except for liars and those trying to manipulate the gullible and uninformed for their own gain.
So the peer-reviewed published literature is fabricated based on your.....opinion.....
She was hired to do an advertisement that would get nurses running back to the four year schools.

Can you cite your source for this?

And even with all that financial backing, our lawmakers saw the study for what it is, propaganda. This is why BSN mandates haven't been made into law.
Which lawmakers? Can you cite your source for this statement?
In your mind, only those with large financial backing can critique or refute a study.
Not exactly. Only scientific data can refute a study not opinion.

I'm sure you'll do very well outside the academia bubble when the consolidations start coming full-speed

I don't work in academia.

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Not exactly. Only scientific data can refute a study not opinion.

Using knowledge of correct research procedure and correct statistical procedure, one can refute a study paragraph by paragraph without having to provide another study. Sometimes it is overwhelmingly obvious that correct research and statistical procedure have not been followed, without the need for a detailed analysis.

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Specializes in Adult Internal Medicine.
Using knowledge of correct research procedure and correct statistical procedure, one can refute a study paragraph by paragraph without having to provide another study. Sometimes it is overwhelmingly obvious that correct research and statistical procedure have not been followed, without the need for a detailed analysis.

So where is that published critique?

The results have been consistent across several countries over the past decade.

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Right. Other than it being a large study published in a little scientific peer-reviewed journal called the Journal of the American Medical Association.

"It was later verified" was used once. The word "empirical" was used three times: once to describe work done by the AHA, once to describe sequalae of cormorbidities, and once in description of the study itself. All of these uses occur in the first 1/3rd of the paper and are not used throughout the study as you stated.

There was no reason any of those uses needed to be cited; the one use that could have potentially needed a citation had two listed.

So the peer-reviewed published literature is fabricated based on your.....opinion.....

Can you cite your source for this?

Which lawmakers? Can you cite your source for this statement?

Not exactly. Only scientific data can refute a study not opinion.

I don't work in academia.

I said phrases like them; not those exact phrases. Think outside the box man.

The source is in the study, as in the source of funding.

My source is a former house speaker.

You may not work in academia but you have a connection unless that doctoral degree is coming from the bottom of a cereal box.

Biased studies are bought, paid for and fabricated every day to sell every day to sell products and services. Many of us don't need a published study to tell us the sky is blue on as clear day; but it seems that many of the over-educated without common sense do. If this study had any merit what-so-ever, there would be a groundswell of support from all sides for the BSN push. And there isn't. When you have something from an unbiased sources, I'll respond again. Until then, I see no reason to keep responding as I have much other work to do.

Nurses, look carefully at who is trying to drive the BSN push. Then decide for yourselves if forking over all that money to take courses such as Sociology of Nursing, Multiculturalism in Nursing, Current Issues in Nursing and Theoretical Foundations for Nursing will give you anything above and beyond what you learned in your nursing program and more importantly if it will help you in your practice.

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P.S. I'll end by saying (and yes this is a biased statement which also happens to be true) that anyone who thinks an extra piece of paper trumps experience and know-how is an absolute idiot. And there seems to be a lot of them with many initials after their names and no common sense in their heads.

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I went directly from an ADN to a BSN immediately after I got my RN in 2012. There were grumblings about the ADN not being able to get hired, so I did not want to wait to get the BSN. My employer made it very clear that the only reason I was hired was because I was pursuing a BSN. I was the only person in my department without a bachelors degree. I went to a state college and it was very affordable. I am now going for the MSN/NP and am nervous about the amount of debt I will acquire, even though it's less than 40,000. I feel backed into a corner academically. I'm south of 40 and, though I'd planned to advance my education, feel pressured by the need to do so quickly. In today's climate, you're afraid to be undereducated and edged out of the workforce, but just as afraid to take on debt that you will have to pay back for many years. It's the way of the world these days. Even teachers are getting advanced degrees - and with a low likelihood that they will get a financial return on their academic investment. I am just going to take a leap of faith and hope that the advanced education is worth it. Get the BSN people, even if you resent the idea of having to do so. It's a must to remain competitive in our field/world. Welcome to the new normal.

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I'm an ADN and plan to start my BSN as soon as I graduate. I don't know why people see it as a big deal or a pain to do so. Why wouldn't you want it? It is the new normal and just like other great professions you have to have a degree other then an associates!! I applaud my school for drilling the importance of a BSN from day one and the fact that they make it so EASY now with everything online. Easy as in accessibility, not easy as in a free grade.

Now an NP? I prob will not go for. But for those who do - I look up to you! That's a lot of work!

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Specializes in Med/surg, Quality & Risk.
I'm an ADN and plan to start my BSN as soon as I graduate. I don't know why people see it as a big deal or a pain to do so. Why wouldn't you want it? It is the new normal and just like other great professions you have to have a degree other then an associates!! I applaud my school for drilling the importance of a BSN from day one and the fact that they make it so EASY now with everything online. Easy as in accessibility, not easy as in a free grade.

Now an NP? I prob will not go for. But for those who do - I look up to you! That's a lot of work!

Why don't I want it? Because I don't really need it. An ASN isn't every nurse's one and only degree. And yes it is a pain. Anyone who has taken statistics would probably say it's a pain, unless they're mathematically inclined!

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