ADN program starting now vs my aspirations towards and MD or DO: What do you think I should do?

RiverRat788 · Nov 20, 2020

9 hours ago, cynical-RN said:

Difficulty as far as requirements or probability of getting in given that there are less PA schools than med schools?

My source is anecdotal and credible. However, it may just be his opinion!

To answer your question, I would suspect that it is due to the number of seats available.

Closed Account 12345 · Nov 20, 2020

I think it's important to note that pursuing a medical doctorate doesn't necessarily give you the "deepest skill set and breadth of knowledge" when compared to other healthcare specialties. I'm not arguing that medical school isn't academically rigorous; it clearly is. I just think it's worth recognizing that learning isn't guaranteed, nor limited, by a degree plan.

There are plenty of physicians who squeak by at the bottom of their class barely retaining the minimal knowledge required to pass boards. There's no guarantee that they are clinically competent. They may lack critical thinking skills and the drive to keep up with current, evidence-based practices or to continue learning. These practitioners are dangerous despite their degree. (I do understand what you meant, though.)

Because you are undecided about the path you want to take, I wouldn't recommend investing years of time or additional money into one specific career at this point. You could likely defer your ADN enrollment by at least one semester, which would open that spot for someone fully invested in becoming a nurse, but it also doesn't close the door permanently for you.

If I were in your shoes, I would take advantage of the free EMT program. EMT programs are relatively short, and you could get an idea of how well you're able to translate book knowledge to clinical practice. You may find that you love the hands on, patient care and relationship aspects of the role (which still involve understanding A&P, patho, pharm). If that's the case, you may prefer nursing to medicine in the long haul. Bonus for you- Some EMT programs include a cadaver lab!

I would recommend completing a bachelor's degree in a pre-med/science track. That way, in 2 years, between your undergraduate degree and EMT experience, you'd be prepared to pursue any number of healthcare tracks. You'd be all set to begin an Accelerated BSN program (1 year), medical school, pharmacy school, PA school, PT school, etc.

Jedrnurse, BSN, RN · Nov 20, 2020

Have you had any experience in patient care? If not, you may want to ease into it a bit with the EMT route. You can continue to take college classes that would be applicable to various routes as well, so it wouldn't be "wasted" time.

RiverRat788 · Nov 20, 2020

23 hours ago, hppygr8ful said:

You do not say where you are in your education but consider that it takes anywhere from 11 to 20 years to become a doctor depending on specialty. Many graduate with close to a million dollars in student loans..

You are correct. One of my daughter's med school roommates has has accumulated this much debt. She is now going to to complete a fellowship.

Thankfully, we were able to cover our two medical school daughters' tuition without loans...not easy though!

Luckily, they had trust funds.

MDBoy · Nov 20, 2020

I got a job recently at a promotions/marketing company where I make $30/hr so that is a huge win for me as far as supporting myself while in Nursing school. I am not going to defer nursing, I know what I want generally speaking. I just had some concerns about picking the best route for me to getting to where I think I'd be most fulfilled in the long term. Because once I pick a pathway, its going to be hard to reverse course towards another after I'm in it. I am quite settled on being an RN and then continuing in my education as an NP or PA. I am also exploring which is best way to get an employer, or even the military to pay for my tuition costs at some point. I know if I commit 3 years of service into the Navy or another branch they will pay 40,000 towards my schooling which might be a good route to consider. I am worried about taking on too much in the 1st year of my nursing program though, although my nursing class is only 8 credits and I'd be working 20-29 hrs a week, but I also have signed up for physics 1 and Ochem 1, but may need to consider if that may be too much...

londonflo · Nov 21, 2020

On 11/13/2020 at 6:17 PM, MDBoy said:

All my family who knows me thinks I am being impulsive because I literally d not even know the details and ins and outs of the MD applications besides the broad strokes. However my feeling is thats a good sign because it means if I am getting so much opposition it. must be because I am doing something inherently with great riask but what is the greater risk> taking the path that has unfolded at great pains oor doubling down and going all in on just a Plan B of a MD career

I don't know you but am responding on the basis of what you wrote. Why would you chose something because it is the greater risk? Have you explored the family objections and do they have merit?

I am asking for a reason. One of the best indicators of future behavior is past behavior. All of us like to think we can turn over a new leaf and change how we do everything. Many are able to change but some do revert to previous patterns of behavior. Should you decide on the nursing program you need to head into it knowing it is for you and you are in the right frame of mind to approach and deal with a rigorous academic program. I am not trying to be Debbie Downer but some students fail even though they have the academic ability. Things like loneliness, depression, even a health care problem can cause a poor academic record which would create potential problems in the future for academic aspirations. Approach your future being true to yourself. At your age you do have some past patterns of behavior to explore.

On 11/13/2020 at 6:37 PM, MDBoy said:

They say its impulsive, I say its brilliant and a sign of a personal transformation from a scared boy to a confident maand one whoo could and should try to beome as great a medical professional as he cann...

Statements like above concern me. I can see where this poster is coming from:

On 11/15/2020 at 9:43 AM, turtlesRcool said:

What I can tell you is that your posts read as both grandiloquent and full of technical errors.

I wish you well but you have recently gone through a move, a break-up with a significant other as you both moved together, and we are in a pandemic that can cause individuals to feel there is a new purpose in their life. I wonder if the pandemic and the presence of health care activity as a pivotal point this year may be influencing you.

On 11/13/2020 at 6:25 PM, MDBoy said:

I have found a renewed sense of the magnifince of all the possibilities I had once thought were not possible bout now realize they are not only ppossible but really just eventuallities if I am commited and remain true to tht end totally.

On 11/13/2020 at 6:25 PM, MDBoy said:

.They care about me but their opinion of me isn't me currently its the entirety of the person they knew from before I made a conscous decision to not ever give up on this single dream I had that I wanted a place in this workforce to learn my craft and attempt to gain mastery.

I do genuinely wish you the best. I just wanted to provide some insight.

londonflo · Nov 24, 2020

On 11/20/2020 at 4:42 PM, MDBoy said:

I am worried about taking on too much in the 1st year of my nursing program though, although my nursing class is only 8 credits and I'd be working 20-29 hrs a week

Do you have an idea of how your first semester contact hours schedule will look? If you have a lab, it may be 2 hours of lab for every 1 hour of credit. Clinical practice is usually 3 - 4 hours per credit. So an 8 hour credit load may end up at 3 credits class =3 hours, 2 credits lab=4 hours, 3 credit clinical = 9 hours for total contact time of 16 hours. Perhaps you will be taking more than one theory class and that will decrease the other numbers. Anyway, it would help for you to ask for some kind of proposed schedule or when you register you may be able to see the clock hours required. Just a time management tip.

HiddencatBSN, BSN · Nov 29, 2020

A couple of things: your family might know how you have handled things in the past in great detail, and while past behavior predicts future behavior it doesn't guarantee it. Pretty much everyone in my life rolled their eyes at my decision to go to nursing school: "here goes hiddencat, changing her career plans AGAIN." And it was true that I'd changed my major multiple times, transferred multiple times, took much longer to complete my first degree than is really reasonable. But what they didn't know was that the idea of going to nursing school and becoming a nurse was an idea that had started as a small passing thought and caught hold and fit in with my needs, wants, and goals with my life. That I felt steady and assured and confident about it. That I had strategies and plans in place to address issues I'd had with my first degree. That I hadn't told anyone what my plans were until I was sure that it was what I wanted and what I was going to make happen.

Your family might have doubts. And they might be reasonable ones. But you're the only person who gets to decide if you have the ability and the drive and the plan to accomplish your goal. Becoming a physician is a long road that requires a lot of dedication, focus, and delayed gratification. Dedication, long term focus and delaying gratification aren't impossible for those of us who have ADHD but ime we definitely need to be doing it for something we WANT.

And I don't want to belabor the point too much about your reaction to having your writing criticized, but if you felt that to sting and hurt your pride, I have bad news for you about the way I've seen attendings dress down residents publicly in front of their peers and the nursing staff that they need to work with.

secondtimer14 · Dec 2, 2020

This is my perspective, as someone around the same age. I've just applied to direct entry MSN programs (I have a non-nursing Bachelor's degree in an unrelated field).

Personally I would stick to the RN route, and pursue becoming a nurse practitioner (or similar) if you want to be in the provider role.

For many years I thought my dream job was OBGYN. I was intimidated by the premed coursework and switched gears all too quickly without really giving it my full effort. I did not learn about certified nurse-midwifery until after I'd graduated college and pursed a completely different career path. Being a CNM satisfies all that drew me to obstetrics in the first place (I much prefer midwifery now that I know the differences), AND with much fewer barriers to entry.

The path from right now to being a fully independent MD is very long and very expensive. NP route can take around as long as medical school if you're starting without the BSN, but med school is much more expensive, you don't have the option to work part time as an RN during the masters, and then at the end of school you have 3+ years of truly grueling internship/residency, which is the most intense part of all. With the NP route, you also have flexibility to work for a while as an RN, see if you like that level of nursing, and continue on if you're more confident you want to be a practitioner.

I'm not denying there are differences in the NP v MD role that may make it all worth it, but you need to be really crystal clear on the advantages of the MD that justify the additional costs.

ThursdayNight, CNA · Dec 2, 2020

Whatever your heart, soul, and mind tell you to do, you do it.

MDBoy · Dec 2, 2020

On 11/23/2020 at 9:42 PM, londonflo said:

Do you have an idea of how your first semester contact hours schedule will look? If you have a lab, it may be 2 hours of lab for every 1 hour of credit. Clinical practice is usually 3 - 4 hours per credit. So an 8 hour credit load may end up at 3 credits class =3 hours, 2 credits lab=4 hours, 3 credit clinical = 9 hours for total contact time of 16 hours. Perhaps you will be taking more than one theory class and that will decrease the other numbers. Anyway, it would help for you to ask for some kind of proposed schedule or when you register you may be able to see the clock hours required. Just a time management tip.

Yes, I realize I may have been too overeager this first semester. I have one clinical day per week which is supposed to last from 3:30pm-9pm. The rest of the days of the M-Thur. week are aprx 4 hrs with theory and lab scattered in. I am now planning on only working and doing that one nursing 111 class which is 8 credit hours. I have to move to that city which is about 30 min from me so I can be closer, so that will be alot of work in itself. I think it would be a mistake of me to try to load too much I.e. physics and ochem on my plate during this fragile moment in my journey. I kind of want to..dare I say...enjoy my life a bit too and not be burnt out by it quite yet theres still a ways to go. What do you think is that sound thinking on the matter?

I am still tossing around the idea of mainly working my current job maybe closer to F/t hours...Seems the job I lined up to work while attending my nursing curriculum stands to garner me a substantial amount of money (48k/yr p/t, or 60k/yr f/t and doesn't require much time outside of my shifts. Considering that, I am now becoming greedy while thinking how I am going try to maximize the money I am able to earn from that fortuitous employment opportunity while I am able to. Plus I quite enjoy it for the foreseeable time so I am unsure if I can do what I had envisioned prior, which was to work shifts in the floating pool as a CNA at Duke. I had seen this as a major win just a couple weeks ago when a person from Duke said they could get me in as a CNA. IDK if I could do it more than once in a while considering how much harder the work would be and the facts its less pay by a bit. Is that not wise of me?

ThursdayNight, CNA · Dec 2, 2020

I'd use the cost-benefit analysis and risk.

If I were in your shoe, I'd give up the idea of living comfortably while in school. It's going to be painful for a while. I'd focus on nursing then get into NP or work towards becoming an MD or DO. Being a CNA, you'll have to work a lot of hours to cover your needs (and wants). Being an RN, even if you only work PT, it will cover what you need. On top of working less, most of all, you'll be able to do things for your patients that you aren't able to do as a CNA.