ADN Nurses Being Forced to go Back to School?

[tnbutterfly - Mary]

New Rules Send Upstate Nurses (in S.C.) Back to School

Hospitals across the country are now mandating that nurses with associate degrees obtain a Bachelor of Science degree.The change went into effect July 1 for nursing staff at Greenville Health System. The organization anticipates 300 nurses will be required to sign a Memorandum of Understanding stating that they will return to school for a BSN degree within four years.

The change in education requirements for nursing staff is based on a recommendation from the Institute of Medicine. The non-profit advisory group wants 80 percent of all nurses to have a four-year degree by 2020.

"We hope for the patient, it will provide enhanced care," according to Judith Thompson, CEO of the South Carolina Nurses Association.

One rationale behind this is that since the role of the nurse in the hospital is changing and becoming more complex, more education is needed to keep up.

What do you think about making nurses with years of experience under their belts to go back to school or risk their jobs?

[icuRNmaggie, BSN, RN]

But that does not prevent an employer from deciding that a nurse without a BSN no longer meets the criteria for continued employment.

I'm all for making the BSN the single entry point for a nursing license. However, those who are already licensed when that happens should be grandfathered in- as far as a license status. What an individual facility does is up to that facility, but they may end up shooting themselves in the foot.

I truly empathize with the many fantastic RNs who are being discriminated against because they graduated from a diploma program or AA or AS program.

My point is simply that the license itself can not be taken away without due process.

It is up to the individual states to establish their criteria to write the NCLEX.

I would love to know which direction the NCSBN is going with this issue or if they even have an legal say in the matter of entry to practice.

[adnrnstudent, ASN, RN]

There are 2 issues I have, and I'm well on record spewing this out on other posts.

There was a day when the smart thing to do was get a ADN then a B.S. in something else like management and then if you wanted a Masters, you could go Nursing or something like an MBA. There are plenty of great nurses that already have B.S. in other areas like Chemistry, Biology, Management, whatever. There is absolutely no reason why having a B.S. in another field should not be recognized.

The other issue which ties in. An ADN-BSN program is nothing more these days than useless paper writing. If I wanted to write papers, I would have majored in Journalism. I have no desire to do research professionally and every single person I know in ADN-BSN programs complain about the endless and mindless papers or postings.

I have no issue with future nurses being required to obtain a BSN. Set a date, anyone that graduates say from 2020 and on need a BSN, but all other nurses should be grandfathered.

Telling the 40+ crowd they must go back or else is nothing short of age discrimination and that's what it's about anyway. Ageism and racism. I assure you this is affecting mid-life crowd and African-American crowd greatly.

Just an edit: I know some great nursing instructors that had their BSN and purposely got their Masters in Education and their careers got screwed over by school accreditation. Lost a lot of good instructors to that.

For a new nurse, an ADN with a BS in Chemistry to me would be a much stronger choice than a APA paper writer. These ADN-BSN programs are a bad, money-making joke.

If the "Scholars" that are running nursing into the ground aren't removed, soon you'll have more and more Medical Assistants doing your jobs. Don't turn nursing into more than it really is. There are plenty of people that are happy at the bedside.

My 2 cents.

[Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN]

I truly empathize with the many fantastic RNs who are being discriminated against because they graduated from a diploma program or AA or AS program.

My point is simply that the license itself can not be taken away without due process.

It is up to the individual states to establish their criteria to write the NCLEX.

I would love to know which direction the NCSBN is going with this issue or if they even have an legal say in the matter of entry to practice.

The problem is...they aren't "taking away" the license they are taking away the job.

To all the proponents of this BSN push I wish I could be around when they are my age and are given the ultimatum....MSN or out.

It WILL happen.

[icuRNmaggie, BSN, RN]

Two point of entry RN exams...No...that will solve nothing. Just make it FINALLY BSN entry, grandfather those with >10 years in and get rid of Diploma/ADN programs once and be done with it already.

You suggested grandfathering all nurses with more than 10 years of experience.

I wrote that the RN license is a property right which can not be taken without due process.

Please don't make me out to be a proponent of using the BSN only push to force senior nurses out of their jobs.

For the record I think this magnet nonsense is just a moneymaker for the ANCC.

[Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN]

You suggested grandfathering all nurses with more than 10 years of experience.

I wrote that the RN license is a property right which can not be taken without due process.

Please don't make me out to be a proponent of using the BSN only push to force senior nurses out of their jobs.

For the record I think this magnet nonsense is just a moneymaker for the ANCC.

I am so sorry if you took it that way the was NEVER my intention! I am an ASN grad!

This comment was not intended at you

To all the proponents of this BSN push I wish I could be around when they are my age and are given the ultimatum....MSN or out.

It was intended at those who feel this is ok.

I agree with you 100%

For the record I think this magnet nonsense is just a moneymaker for the ANCC

[icuRNmaggie, BSN, RN]

For what its worth I'll taking working with the over 50 crowd any day.

I feel strongly that nursing

education in the US is an ineffective mess for a multitude of reasons.

In 1910 the Carnegie Foundation published the Flexner report on medical education which the US government utilized to establish criteria for medical education. It would be a start to have a similar study done by experts in the field of undergrad and post grad education.

[vintage_RN, BSN, RN]

This topic is a whole different ball game here in Ontario,Canada because the entry level for RNs is a BSN and has been for about 12 years. If I want better pay and more job opportunities then I need to go back and do the PN-BSCN bridge which is what I'm doing. I do not agree with forcing nurses with many years of experience to go back...many of the nurses I work with are diploma RNs who were grandfathered in and are excellent nurses, and I certainly can't imagine them going back to school at this point.

[DoGoodThenGo]

Here in the NYC are North Shore- LIJ became BSN only a few years ago, but they at least grandfathered current ADN nurses: North Shore-LIJ Becomes NY's First Health System to Require New Nurses to Get Bachelor's Degree

Source: Nursing Spectrum

Hospitals Begin to Require BSNs, Aren't Waiting on BSN in 10 Legislation

https://allnurses.com/new-york-nursing/north-shore-lij-491643.html

Will refrain my comments to this: the nursing profession has been arguing amongst itself for >50 years regarding making the BSN mandatory for practice as a RN. In that time frame hundreds of ADN and diploma students not only graduated programs and passed the boards but worked their entire careers for the most part totally unaffected.

Ever since the famous (or infamous depending upon your view) NLN white paper there has been much noise and well yes, infighting about the pros and cons of making the BSN mandatory for R.N.s So long did this debate continue that students and professional seasoned experienced nurses alike could say with confidence "oh they have been saying the BSN will be mandatory for years......", and thus feel secure (and probably rightly so) that they would be unaffected.

Well sadly what the profession could not or would not do seems to be happening anyway via external forces. Know one has been flamed for saying this before and many do not like to hear it but the simple fact is this; hospital nurses are *labour*, and thus their employers have every right to impose educational standards. Considering the amount of legal activity that goes on in this country over even petty matters such as coffee being served too hot, you'd think that if any attorney thought an ADN or diploma nurse had a shot at legal recourse if she or he was denied employment, promotion and or required to obtain a BSN as part of continued employment you'd see tons of adverts everywhere, but you don't.

Previous attempts at making the BSN mandatory at least by one state and or local hospitals failed. This usually was because a shortage popped up and hospitals had to take what they could get. This time around one feels things may be different at the rodeo. For one thing inpatient bed numbers are shrinking in many parts of the USA. Everything from hospitals shutting down to the push for shorter stays and or discharge to rehab or home care. Less beds equals lower demand for nurses.

Then you have to consider the healthcare business in the United States has given itself almost wholly over to behaving as such. In doing so places have gone "Lean" and "Sigma Six" themselves to death along with employing other means of getting the most productivity from fewer employees. Since the last great and true nursing shortage (around the 1980's or so), a huge cottage industry has grown around advising hospitals on how to manage their nursing staff efficiently and effectively. In many places for instance you no longer see full shifts of OR nurses brought in at 7AM when the first surgery isn't scheduled until 11AM.

All of this does not even address the near glut of new grads found in many parts of the USA. History teaches us that whenever the supply of labour or profession is greater than demand employers and or those seeking to hire have the upper hand.

[DoGoodThenGo]

Two point of entry RN exams...No...that will solve nothing. Just make it FINALLY BSN entry, grandfather those with >10 years in and get rid of Diploma/ADN programs once and be done with it already.

Here is the thing; going back to the original intent of creating BSN nurses and that NLN paper reinforced was that the BSN was *not* supposed to be at the bedside. Her advanced training/education was to place her in management, administration, advanced practice, etc.... In fact the NLN white paper spelled out two levels of professional nurses. The BSN would plan, evaluate and so forth patient care along with the administrative end of things. A newly created level of "technical" nurse (diploma and ADN) along with UAPs and LPNs would be the ones at bedside implementing care an so forth. It was this division of nurses into "professional/R.N." and "technical" that caused many ears to draw back and at once squashed most hopes of the thing ever advancing.

Meanwhile back on the ranch hospitals began more and more to assume the "nurse is a nurse is a nurse" posture. So you had BSN nurses who often were back in the day chided for being "all theory" and neither use nor ornament at the beside working side by side with diploma and ADN grads. However over the decades as the role of a professional nurse has changed (least as far as hospitals are concerned) the qualities of what a BSN prepared nurse brings to the table are now valued.

Another small tidbit; historically in both board passing rates and on the floors many diploma grads equaled and or surpassed BSNs in performance in a wide variety of areas.

[sistrmoon, BSN, RN]

If they pay full tuition and provide childcare while I attend class and study, sounds good:) I take issue with the comparison of an ADN to a horse and buggy. In my area the ADN program was well known to be a better and more sought after program than the BSN. I already had an unrelated Bachelors. I haven't heard of this happening in NY yet. I think it's very difficult to meaningfully study this topic. Have you controlled for all confounding factors? Experience? Pay? Etc? Doubtful.

I plan to go back for an accelerated Masters once my youngest is in school. But before then would be quite a burden in many ways.

[westieluv]

While not everyone has the same ambitions I have, I feel strongly that RN's should welcome higher levels of education if for no other reason than to have "you only have an associates" no longer be a source of disrespect or derision from physicians and administration.

LOL. I know so many physicians who, when they make rounds in the hospital, immediately seek out the older, more experienced ADN and Diploma RNs. They couldn't give a hoot about what kind of degree a nurse has, they are looking for someone who knows how to competently care for their patients. I'm not saying a BSN nurse can't give competent care, obviously, but in nursing, experience really does go a lot further in giving good care than if someone completed a bunch of extra undergrad courses, especially since many of them have nothing to do with nursing per se.

[Laurie52]

LOL. I know so many physicians who, when they make rounds in the hospital, immediately seek out the older, more experienced ADN and Diploma RNs. They couldn't give a hoot about what kind of degree a nurse has, they are looking for someone who knows how to competently care for their patients. I'm not saying a BSN nurse can't give competent care, obviously, but in nursing, experience really does go a lot further in giving good care than if someone completed a bunch of extra undergrad courses, especially since many of them have nothing to do with nursing per se.

They are seeking out the experienced nurse, that could be an experienced nurse with a BSN. Why does everyone make the assumption that experience automatically means you don't have a BSN? I have over 40 years of experience AND a BSN.