I completely get the impossibility of paying off 200K for an expensive non marketable degree and not being able to find a job, but I'm not fully understanding the issue with paying off a moderate loan when hired after graduation.
Comparing it to my loan, I graduated with $9,500 in debt and was hired at $10.50/hr. That creeped up of course but I initially made less than 25K/year. Compared to 104K now, that was very little income.
I was the sole earner, paid my rent, had a new but modest car, paid for my two kids (didn't even have maternity benefits on the first (the health insurance industry has never been a bed of roses), had a couple of horses and still paid off my loans in 10 years.
What I don't get is the primary reason why that doesn't work the same for anyone that graduates with student debt that is roughly half of their annual income these days.
I'm sure interest plays a part, but what else?
Do people just resent having to pay them back? They're cramping the new lifestyle norm?
It is my understanding that disability does qualify for student loan forgiveness and thats enough for me. While I agree that there should be appropriate education regarding any loan a person is taking out I am no fan of adding more bankruptcy options to our society who imo has largely taken advantage of this option.
Like your frustration over not getting any loan forgiveness I'm frustrated that I have purchased modest homes that I could actually afford and have actually had to pay for them. Again I think our society has plenty of options to get out of paying for things for those who claim they didn't understand what they were getting into when they moved their excessive credit card purchased belongings into the McMansion that there is no way they could ever afford.
Theoretically you can get your student loans discharged for permanent disability, actually getting them discharged is an expensive and timely process. They are not discharged simply because you have been determined to be disabled by social security and on disability. At that point you haven't proven to the student lender's satisfaction that you are truly disabled and they can and will garnish your social security disability till they decide you are truly disabled. In fact I even had a 60 year old patient with this problem who told me all her struggles. She was a city librarian who was told she need to get her MA for the job, which she did and then they turned around and laid her off! She could never find another librarian job and ended up working $10/hr secretarial job till her health left her disabled, CRF, DM, CHF. A year or two went by and she told me she had finally gotten her student loans discharged with interest they were up to $65,000 and she had taken very little out to begin with! But now she was on the hook with taxes as this was now considered income unless she could prove she was insolvent! I don't know what happened at that point because her CHF was so bad she actually coded the next day when I was off and ended up in ICU. I don't even know if she is still alive. But what a stressful thing to have to go thru when you are barely getting by on disability! Over 100,000 people are currently having their social security garnished for unpaid student loans. It is a real problem! There needs to be bankruptcy options!
As for buying modest homes, I bought only one modest home that I love and plan to live in till I die. I can't imagine trading up for another home. I just want to get this one paid in full before I retire and that is my plan.
Also I don't think it is unreasonable to take advantage of loan forgiveness if it is available. I think it would be foolish to leave money on the table. But these programs are not advertised and I think very few people actually qualify in the end. So I wouldn't plan on loan forgiveness as the option to pay off student loans. I think that is more mirage than reality!
As to young people taking out too many loans and they should know better, I remember being courted by many private colleges when I was in high school all offering this great dream experience and promising the moon. I'm glad I didn't go to college right then and there because I knew nothing about money. I came from a working class family, was the oldest, and was pressured to go to college by the high school, but had also taking secretarial training and decided to just get a job instead. I probably would have ended up with more student loans, although at least tuition wasn't as bad as it is today.
I think many people, families and teen are naive about money and college. The media and schools push college as the answer to a job and tell everyone to go to school, but there is no guarantee of a job. It is sad because there are many people who owe thousands that they will not be able to pay and even garnishing their wages and social security in the end it will be forgiven when they die! Is that the solution we want for our country to have millions indebted till they die.
If colleges aren't affordable and don't lead to a good job, perhaps they should go out of business. Do we really need all the colleges in this country?
I think something has to be done because the way things are going it is just not sustainable. Some grads have actually committed suicide over their debt. Others have emigrated to get out from under, but the majority in over their held will find their entire lives ruined because of making the mistake to go to college. College is truly out of the reach of many people, unless they indebt themselves. Are we really doing people favors, by letting them get in over their head with $50,000 or $100,000+ student loans. Maybe we will eventually return to an apprenticeship society where at least after the training you actually had a job to look forward to. I think that would be better than where we are at today where getting a good job is like playing musical chairs.
Specializes in Critical Care; Cardiac; Professional Development.
First, I must say I'm the first in my family to go to college so I didn't have any advice about the difference b/w public and private colleges. Second, my guiance counselor was a complete dunce so didn't get any help there AND even if she weren't such a dummie, she wouldn't have been much of a help b/c the cost of college at the time she went to school was FAR less expensive than it is today.
I went to a private school that was $40,000/yr and got nothing for financial aid despite my parents' poverty (a combined family income of $75,000/yr before taxes w/ 4 children so do the math). So I took out loans from Sallie Mae.
No one told me, nor did I read in the terms, how much I would have to pay and over what period of time. I also lived on campus b/c I was an out of state student so tac on another $10,000 for living expenses. My school had a coop program which meant that it took you 5 years to get a BSN- do the math at $50,000/yr and I walk out w/ over $200,000 in debt.
Fortunately I had HRSA help for 3 years, but guess what, Auntie Sallie applied the payments to interest first so after 3 years of $3500/mo payments, I still have $193,000 to go.
Since I was so far in the hole, I figured what's another $30,000 to get a MSN and become a FNP? So I did that and doubled my pay right out of school. I now work 2 jobs (one FT and 1 per diem that is 1 day/wk) and have tripled my income. I can afford the $1400/mo loan payments which is still a lot of money, but I did what I had to do given what little info I was given/or lack of, at the time.
If I had to do it all over again, I would've gone to a state school and live at home. That's hind-sight. All I can do now is advise other prospective college students to think about the field they're entering, the school they're going to, how it will be financed, and how they will be able to pay it off.
Since I left undergrad, the cost of attending that school has shot up to $50,000/yr and that doesn't even include living expenses which are well over $10,000/yr. The issue isn't the students taking out loans they may not be able to pay, it's that the cost of college has shot up in a very small amount of time- has anyone stopped to ask whether the quality of that education has shot up at the same rate? Why is it so expensive? Why there are cuts to funding student loan programs? Why is the government making money off the student loan payments (Dept of Ed) when other companies don't pay taxes (ie GE and the NFL), etc.
I think if people want to get a college education, they shouldn't be punished after w/ payments they can't afford. There is a huge wave of former students sticking it to the government and these loan companies by not paying their debts b/c they can't afford them and further, no one wants to help them do so. The current figures for student loan debt in this country is now in the TRILLIONS of dollars and that is ridiculous. We need to stop victimizing the people who have that debt, and start looking at the colleges, the policy makers, and these loan companies for solutions or the problem will continue to get worse. Simply telling people that 'you should've done the math' isn't a solution to the greater problem- it hasn't yet and if you continue to do the same thing over and over and get the same results, you're insane!
The highlighted portions give me very little sympathy. You admit yourself you didn't investigate the terms. 75K for a family of four is FAR FAR FAR from poverty. And I am baffled that you see yourself as a victim and put it in print declaring yourself as such.
No. I just resent the fact that my interest rate was 1.5% when I began and now it's around 7%. It's higher than my mortgage interest. Federal student loans should be less than 3% interest and the interest should not begin to accrue until you graduate. The interest rate combined with the yearly tuition increases is killer. Especially, for part time students like myself who take longer to graduate and therefore amass larger loans.
Well, there are some nurses that see what is going to happen, and there are some that have no understanding of economics what-so-ever.
Student loans are another bubble that are going to burst just like the housing bubble. It is all related to finance.
I came from a household where I was born in a single wide trailer (yes, born in the trailer) and know what poverty is. Lol, at some peoples' definition of poverty. I didn't graduate 9th grade, before becoming a nurse less than 3 years ago. Shifting blame onto others is at the core of what is wrong with every problem a person gets themselves into.
We will all suffer because of the amount ignorance by a massive amount of people that call themselves "educated" that are clearly not educated in finance. It is your fault….no one else's.. if you don't understand the promises you make.
Trying to make things more complex than the simple answer shows a true lack of intelligence and inability to comprehend beyond what a fool tells you to think.
While I agree with some of the things you said, I don't know about all four points. First, I think that tuition is constantly increasing and degrees are getting more expensive. That means that people have to take out more loans. The interest rates on my federal loans is 6%. Fortunately for me, my balance isn't super high so that doesn't impact me much. Unfortunately for some, they may be on their second degree and have racked up 50K of debt already. That 6% doesn't look good now. A college degree is ingrained in our psyches. You need it to do anything in life. I think that perhaps looking at and promoting alternatives like trade schools will help a lot more people out by making access to a skill that's marketable available. I do believe that there is a student loan crisis looming and we need to put some regulation on private lenders to keep interest rates reasonable. They're making easy money off of people that are already saddled with huge amounts of debt. Unlike other loans, student loans are the strictest and cannot be forgiven under any circumstance. There's definitely a need to improve the system that's already in place. The first place to start would be banks since they're allowed to dictate how high the interest rates go. Just my two cents though...
I also only took out the minimum amount for my student loans totaling $15,000. I worked full time while going to nursing school with 4 children, divorced twin 6 month old boys, 2 year old girl and a 5 year old boy. After I graduated I moved out of my parent's home which I had to live during my divorce. Mind you I was 35. I had to defer my loans and then consolidate them because even though it was a small amount they sold off my loans to 5 different guarantors and when I consolidated I gave them every loan but they didn't put all the loans in the consolidation. While making payments they put me into default. I know many people this has happened to. The government is running the show for student loans now and the collection agencies they hired sell off to other collection agencies which work for them and they had fees each time this has happened. So I have paid $22000 on my loans and they still have me in default and continue selling them off and adding more fees. So believe it or not it is a known scam. They do not want paid off. My attorney and the US Dept of Education ombudsman is very well aware of this. Many are suffering while the collection agencies are salivating wanting these loans illegally put into default. They can add pretty much whatever fee they want and off set your tax refund. I finally almost have it cleared up. Thank GOD! It has been a nightmare.
Just to make sure I'm not way off base I checked a local LPN program's tuition and fees which included uniforms, books and required testing was $6,028. So imo anyone who truly wants to become a nurse and is willing to work while they continue their education has very viable options. I'm not refereeing from the cheap seats this is what I did so I know it works.
The big differences I would assume is that I worked weekends for years, missed most social gatherings including weddings and funerals as well as working holidays and any overtime I could despite being tired, stressed out or whatever other excuse people use for not being able to work more hours in an effort to avoid or pay off their debt.
Specializes in Case mgmt., rehab, (CRRN), LTC & psych.
This doesn't make sense. Do you have a GED?
Many nurses have GEDs.
In addition, multiple community colleges and open-admissions universities across the country will admit someone without a high school diploma or GED as long as a determination's been made that the prospective student will benefit.
Specializes in Case mgmt., rehab, (CRRN), LTC & psych.
A college degree is ingrained in our psyches.
I disagree. As previously mentioned, the vast majority of American adults (70 percent) age 25 and older do not have college degrees.
A huge swath of people in this country have never had any aspirations for college and never will. I graduated from a high school in a working-class city where less than 10 percent of graduating seniors went off to college. Some high schools have dropout rates of roughly 50 percent.
There's a massive number of Americans who aren't even thinking of college; therefore, it is not imbedded within their psyches. I've met many people who are scornful of 'book learning' and see it as a waste of time and money.
brandy1017, ASN, RN
2,910 Posts
Theoretically you can get your student loans discharged for permanent disability, actually getting them discharged is an expensive and timely process. They are not discharged simply because you have been determined to be disabled by social security and on disability. At that point you haven't proven to the student lender's satisfaction that you are truly disabled and they can and will garnish your social security disability till they decide you are truly disabled. In fact I even had a 60 year old patient with this problem who told me all her struggles. She was a city librarian who was told she need to get her MA for the job, which she did and then they turned around and laid her off! She could never find another librarian job and ended up working $10/hr secretarial job till her health left her disabled, CRF, DM, CHF. A year or two went by and she told me she had finally gotten her student loans discharged with interest they were up to $65,000 and she had taken very little out to begin with! But now she was on the hook with taxes as this was now considered income unless she could prove she was insolvent! I don't know what happened at that point because her CHF was so bad she actually coded the next day when I was off and ended up in ICU. I don't even know if she is still alive. But what a stressful thing to have to go thru when you are barely getting by on disability! Over 100,000 people are currently having their social security garnished for unpaid student loans. It is a real problem! There needs to be bankruptcy options!
As for buying modest homes, I bought only one modest home that I love and plan to live in till I die. I can't imagine trading up for another home. I just want to get this one paid in full before I retire and that is my plan.
Also I don't think it is unreasonable to take advantage of loan forgiveness if it is available. I think it would be foolish to leave money on the table. But these programs are not advertised and I think very few people actually qualify in the end. So I wouldn't plan on loan forgiveness as the option to pay off student loans. I think that is more mirage than reality!
As to young people taking out too many loans and they should know better, I remember being courted by many private colleges when I was in high school all offering this great dream experience and promising the moon. I'm glad I didn't go to college right then and there because I knew nothing about money. I came from a working class family, was the oldest, and was pressured to go to college by the high school, but had also taking secretarial training and decided to just get a job instead. I probably would have ended up with more student loans, although at least tuition wasn't as bad as it is today.
I think many people, families and teen are naive about money and college. The media and schools push college as the answer to a job and tell everyone to go to school, but there is no guarantee of a job. It is sad because there are many people who owe thousands that they will not be able to pay and even garnishing their wages and social security in the end it will be forgiven when they die! Is that the solution we want for our country to have millions indebted till they die.
If colleges aren't affordable and don't lead to a good job, perhaps they should go out of business. Do we really need all the colleges in this country?
I think something has to be done because the way things are going it is just not sustainable. Some grads have actually committed suicide over their debt. Others have emigrated to get out from under, but the majority in over their held will find their entire lives ruined because of making the mistake to go to college. College is truly out of the reach of many people, unless they indebt themselves. Are we really doing people favors, by letting them get in over their head with $50,000 or $100,000+ student loans. Maybe we will eventually return to an apprenticeship society where at least after the training you actually had a job to look forward to. I think that would be better than where we are at today where getting a good job is like playing musical chairs.