A male Nurse Practitioner: What are your thoughts?

indomie23, BSN, RN · Sep 19, 2012

I'm sorry for the jumbled sentencing, I originally spaced out the sentences, but it didn't turn out.

Fiona59 · Sep 20, 2012

I have a friend who is a "male" NP. He's a damned good nurse. Started out as an NA, became an LPN, then RN, did his masters, and finally his NP. We do it slightly differently in Canada. He works in mental health/addictions.

The role of NP was created to allow experienced nurses to work with specific populations. The best NPs I have ever worked with were nurses with at least a decade of hands on experience either on specialty services or working in our far north as out-post/reserve nurses.

So, unless you know that you can be a nurse first, don't get to focussed on being an NP.

Born_2BRN · Sep 20, 2012

In order to became NP you first need to become an RN with bachelor degree. AP however is a different route of education. I believe you can go straight to PA program with all of pre-reqs done in lower education institution. FYI- many schools are offering DNP in many specialties. With bachelors degree you have choices: BSN-MSN (NP) or BSN-DNP (NP with doctorate).

perioddrama · Sep 20, 2012

-How long is does it take to become a NP today, preferably after 2015?Before answering, if you can, please consider the new educational requirements set for becoming a NP by 2015. If I am not mistaken, I hear that in order to become a NP one must achieve a DNP by 2015. Will that be true for most programs by 2015?

This is just a rumor that won't go away. I haven't seen anything concrete and written in stone regarding mandatory DNP by 2015 to practice as an NP.

Research the schools for NP and PA. There are plenty of different entry modes for the NP route, so you can decide which is a best fit for you (entry-level masters, ADN-BSN-MSN route, BSN-MSN, etc). PA schools generally require pre-req classes.

PA and NP schools are still both competitive to get in to, so make sure all your pre-req classes are at the top of their game!

As to picking what you want to eventually be, consider this: NP and PA have a different models - NP is nursing at the core and PA uses the medical model. Which do you want to eventually practice?

Good luck in your future endeavors!

nurseprnRN, BSN, RN · Sep 20, 2012

You want to be independent and have your own license upon which to rely (NP) or be forever connected at the hip to a physician (PA)?

myelin · Sep 20, 2012

It would be easier to answer your questions if you gave us more info. Do you already have a bachelors degree? What are your career goals? Are you interested in just clinical work or also research/teaching/policy? Are you interested in working abroad? What specialties are you interested in? Do not worry about the 2015 thing, there are no laws currently in place that NPs must have the DNP by 2015. I will be graduating with a MSN in 2015.

Tinabeanrn · Sep 20, 2012

All good questions OP. I agree with Myelin though, do you already have your BSN? Or do you have a bachelors in something else. If you have your BSN I would say go the NP route. There are plenty of Male NPs. But if you have your bachelors in something else, it would take you longer to get a second bachelors in nursing and then add an additional 2 years to get your NP. There are several speciality areas that NPs work in. The training can be in Family (broadest route and which I am), acute/critical care, peds, neonatal, ER, adult/gerontology and womens health. As a PA you receive two intensive years of trianing. You have to complete certain prereqs and have at least 1500 hrs of patient care training, so you could be an EMT or PCT or Nurse assistant, and that would count towards the 1500 hrs. Once in the program you would have 1 years of class room lectures daily Mon-Friday from 8 to 5. So I dont see you being able to work a full time job at that time. Then the second year you start clinicals. You do a month of each service like internal medicine, ER, peds, OB, psych, OR, family practice. The last 3 months would dedicated to a speciality area that you actually want to work in ...like internal medicine. They basically work 40-60 hrs a week in clnical so I dont see you being able to work too much at this time either. Then your done :)!

NP school is different depending on what program you attend. I did family. You do classroom course work and clinicals at the same time. Usually we attend class two nights a week and clinical two days per week or three days per week. You have to get so many hours done in each area. I did peds, OB, geriatrics, GI, psych, homeless shelter, adult primary care and ICU. Other found different clinic sites so not all of your clinicals are the same as your classmates. Depending on the school, you may have to find your own clinical site which can be really hard and challenging bc for some reason ppl dont want to do it. You can diffenately work in NP school. But it will be a challenge bc they keep you busy with tons and tons and tons of assignments. Most finish this in 2 years or you can go part time, depending on the school.

Hope this helps

zoidberg, BSN, RN · Sep 21, 2012

another consideration is how well you did if you have a undergrad degree already. My experience was that PA school has harder to get into than osteopathic (D.O.) schools, so even if you have a Biology Degree, your 3.3 GPA and 500 CNA hours will not get you in. And its only getting more competitive. Also, accelerated BSN programs at prestigious schools are becoming difficult to get in to as well.

If you struggled, consider getting your ADN to become an RN. If you shadow NP's and PA's and still are indecisive, getting your RN will force you to get experience--in the real world. Then you can know what you want to do--be that be an NP, administrator, teacher, etc, and go get your MSN to do that.

With the PA/NP thing, every state is different, so read your states board of nursing scope of practice for NP's and look up the same for PA's. That may provide some insight. The generalizations of PA's and NP's you may hear are also not fast and true. Many NP's are attached to an MD's hip and many PA's work every day without even seeing an MD. In many cases they do the exact same thing. There are holistic PA's and heartless NP's who only see the disease process.

What I had to do was decide what I wanted to do (be a NP or PA) and seek out what methods I have to get there, then go into the first door that opens, you never know what it may do for you. If you remain open to opportunities, you will do fine.

The male thing doesn't matter. Everyone needs a job these days. Mid level salary's vary my location and specialty. Differences you find in gender or NP/PA salary are usually due to the fact that NP's are often in primary care, and PA's in specialties, as well as women's avg pay being brought down by more women in ped's family, ob, etc. Once you account for those differences, they make similar salaries if it is the same specialty.

chiromed0 · Sep 22, 2012

Well, in my current profession there are a lot of ex-patriots transitioning over to MSN-NP at the moment w/o any experience as an RN other than clinical rotations. I looked into both a while back and broader application as an NP, to me, is more favorable b/c you have a separate profession altogether. A P.A. is a physician extender period. You are an extension of the overseeing Doctor. An NP is first an RN with additional scope. In the real world...not much difference in actual duties, jobs, etc. Scope of practice is different from state to state but for the most part there is still physician oversight. Some do have independent practice rights though for BOTH PA and NP if you want your own business and just hire an MD for signoffs.

You really have to know whether you want to be just a provider, advocate or both. Also, if you really don't like studying nursing then NP is out, you can get into PA school with other undergrad degrees but your going to at least have to have an RN to be an NP, you DO NOT HAVE TO HAVE A BSN ALREADY. There are RN-MSN NP programs out there.

rxh027 · Dec 19, 2012

Hello:

I am a male RN. I have been practicing nursing in Telemetry--Cardiac--for 6 years. I am in my completion of my MSN--Adult-Gerontological NP--studies, which I will complete after two more semesters--August 2013 graduation.

NP VS. PA: NPs are more autonomous than PAs. PAs by definition are assistants. NPs are gaining much more autonomy, very quickly these days.

DNP VS. MSN--in relation to after 2015: The Consensus Model is what guides nursing now. It stipulates a DNP will be the minimum requirement to gain NP licensure, starting implementation by 2013, fully integrated by 2015. NPs currently have certificates, i.e., are certified NPs, with STATE licensure as an RN, and they practice under their RN license. The difference is that, in the very near future, NPs will have a separate license from their RN license, and it will be the same nation-wide. Nursing schools across the country have already started phasing out the MSN. One example is Temple University, which no longer has an MSN--NP program. Schools would not be doing away with money-making MSN--NP programs, if there was not a reason!! So, yes, the DNP is going to be a requirement, and yes there is a specific policy, etc. about such.

Education--other: If one is already an RN with a BSN, it will be easier to get the MSN--NP, but with the DNP requirement, it will still take one an additional 4 years, in some advanced cases only 3 years, to complete the DNP, after the BSN. If one does not have any RN degree or license, it will be a lot easier to gain PA Master degree and go the PA route.

Male: I do believe that our arrogant society still has this belief that nurses are female and physicians are male. And, there is actually good reason. Although medical students, starting after around the 1960s, became about 50% female and 50% male, today 95%+ nursing students are female, and 95%+ NP students are also female. International honor societies for nursing tend to be about 97% female, even if the society members are invited!! This shows that, since membership is by invitation only, these societies are excluding men. In fact, I am sure one could open a legal case against these such nursing societies. However, in practice I believe being a male is much better than being a female, whether floor RN or male NP. Males, in my experience, are treated better, with more respect, and have a different work ethic that is liked. There are exceptions on both sides--female and male--but this is my generalization to answer the question above.

SmoothJams · Dec 19, 2012

DNP VS. MSN--in relation to after 2015: The Consensus Model is what guides nursing now. It stipulates a DNP will be the minimum requirement to gain NP licensure, starting implementation by 2013, fully integrated by 2015. NPs currently have certificates, i.e., are certified NPs, with STATE licensure as an RN, and they practice under their RN license. The difference is that, in the very near future, NPs will have a separate license from their RN license, and it will be the same nation-wide. Nursing schools across the country have already started phasing out the MSN. One example is Temple University, which no longer has an MSN--NP program. Schools would not be doing away with money-making MSN--NP programs, if there was not a reason!! So, yes, the DNP is going to be a requirement, and yes there is a specific policy, etc. about such.

This post is not correct and once again makes it seem like this is a done deal and a finalized issue when it's not at all.

Please take a look at this post from one of the AllNurses site guides that provides what I believe to be a more accurate analysis of the "DNP for NP recommendation" issue:

Speaking from the NP perspective, it is still a recommendation and not an official mandate. That's just how it's going to unfold regardless of where you stand on the issue because as we all know, NP practice is regulated by the individual state boards as well as the multiple national specialty certification boards so change has to come from a collective effort from these entities. It is easier for other APN groups to set a deadline (such as CRNA's, for example) because their practice is more uniform and their training programs and certification are governed by a streamlined and unified entity unlike us NP's who seem to be more scattered (i.e., no formal accreditation specific to NP programs by a single entity and no unified national certification body).
The optimists feel that the speed at which DNP programs emerged is promising and the natural progression is that the DNP programs will outnumber the MS/MSN programs which may lead to the phasing out of the master's degree eventually regardless of a formal mandate. They compare it to the time when master's degrees for APN's started to pick up and the certificate programs naturally died out even though some states were still granting NP licenses to those trained at the certificate level. The pessimists feel that this is just a flashback of the "BSN-as-entry-to-nursing practice" issue and will never happen. I don't have an opinion as I'm happy with my current degree and have no immediate plans to return to school.

Here are some additional threads on the issue:

https://allnurses.com/doctor-nursing-practice/2015-dnp-529004.html

https://allnurses.com/doctor-nursing-practice/mandatory-dnp-2015-a-505362.html

https://allnurses.com/doctor-nursing-practice/dnp-2015-forreal-511344.html

I don't understand how so many people can be so unclear about the factual nature of this issue. Especially folks who are already in the field.