A Different Approach to the ADN vs. BSN Debate

Nursing Students ADN/BSN

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Over and over again, we read the same things on these threads. Pay BSN's more at the bedside, and mandate a BSN for all entry level nurses. There is widespread assumption that a BSN mandate would limit the labor supply even further and increase nursing wages.

I'm not sure that would actually happen but, for the sake of argument, let's assume that it would. Ok: so now you're making more money but, since I live in California where we have mandated staffing ratios ... it got me thinking. What's going to happen in the other 49 states where you don't have ratio laws? Isn't it possible that with a more limited labor pool the hospitals would give you even more unreasonable patient loads at the bedside than you have now?

A BSN mandate could very well limit supply and increase wages but it does nothing to improve working conditions. This is where, IMO, a ratio law is a better alternative because it does both. While a ratio law doesn't limit the supply, it does increase the demand and wages by limiting the number of assigned patients to each RN and forcing the hospitals to create more nursing positions.

Plus, it has the added benefit of making your life a hellava lot easier at the bedside which a BSN mandate doesn't do. By limiting supply even further, a BSN mandate could very well thwart attempts to mandate ratios in other states if there aren't enough nurses to staff mandated ratios.

Now ... this may not satisfy BSN nurses who want more consideration for your degrees but, this is where I don't understand you guys. I'm a recent ADN grad and I'll be spending the next two years working on my BSN. You BSN nurses are already way ahead of me.

You definitely qualify for more jobs than I do. There are, at least, some jobs where you can make more money than me at the bedside and, there are other jobs where your BSN counts as additional experience, etc. for promotion. In my area, at least, the BSN career opportunities are tremendous because there aren't that many BSN nurses to begin with. You're also way ahead of me in getting your master's, which increases your job prospects even further.

I see plenty of benefits with the BSN as it is. If I didn't ... I wouldn't bother with the time and expense of furthering my education.

And I wonder if any of the BSN nurses have considered the flip side of all of this? If everyone had a BSN then, everyone would also qualify for those other job opportunities that only you qualify for now. For nurses who don't want to work at the bedside, you already have a huge advantage over the rest of us.

Do you really want every nurse to qualify for the jobs that only you qualify for now? In some ways, this could actually be detrimental to BSN nurses who, IMO, have a huge advantage over the rest of us as it is.

As the old saying goes ... be careful what you wish for.

Just some food for thought.

:typing

I have to ask a question, what does a piece of paper represent? To me, they had to kill yet another tree to print the thing. I will have a degree and it should not matter what type of institution it came from. Next, they are going to say if you received a BSN from a certain institution you are not as qualified. It is all crazy and political; it should not matter as long as you are providing quality, competent, and compassionate care. It's about the patient being taken care of and not the piece of paper that states you have an associates or bachelors.

Specializes in PEDS ~ PP ~ NNB & LII Nursery.
The thing is, I don't think many ADN nurses come out of their programs and think, "Wow. I finally have an ASSOCIATE'S DEGREE; I'm educated now!"

I am not sure what you meant by this statement. But for me, my graduation day from my ~ College ~ (wasn't a University as I went for the ADN) was a day of great accomplishment for me, and Yes! I did think, "I did it! I better myself, received my degree and furthered my education. I DID feel (and still do) that I am by far more educated now.

Please don't step on my rainbow simply because I didn't attend a "University".

To the poster that stated it takes a tree to print the degree on. That is one heavy piece of paper! ;)

rags

Specializes in Med-Surg, Trauma, Ortho, Neuro, Cardiac.
So I do feel my program has successfully trained me for an entry level RN position.

It did, but it also sounded like it required you to do what the BSN students were doing and you were awarded an ADN. To me that's maddening.

I 100% agree with you that ADNs and BSNs are on equal footing, equally prepared to perform at the bedside as RNs.

Specializes in PEDS ~ PP ~ NNB & LII Nursery.
I 100% agree with you that ADNs and BSNs are on equal footing, equally prepared to perform at the bedside as RNs.

I can't speak for aacurtis72 or any other poster on here but that is exactly what I was wanting from my education anyway... So... I'm happy! I am thank full for the fact that an ADN program was available to me for not only it's accessible location but also for it's affordable tuition. Without either of those (as I've mentioned before) the dream of becoming a nurse would never have become a reality for me.

rags

I disagree completely. There is already a distinction between LVN/LPNs, RNs, and NPs, all with there own teir of responsibilities. The problem is, there is a division among RNs b/c of the ADN vs BSN, and honestly, there is a difference. I meet individuals in this profession everyday that you can clearly see a difference in education levels. I'm not saying this applies to all ADNs, as some are very intelligent, but across the board, I believe an RN has too many responsibilities to suffice with a possible two year degree at a community college. Responsibilities will simply be reallocated between LPN/LVNs and RNs. Saying that this will force all RNs to eventually be required to get MSNs is rediculous. QUOTE]

Yes, I can certainly tell you are more educated. LOL. "Teir" and "rediculous'??? :lol2: :lol2: :lol2:

In my neck of the woods ADN's are called ASN's. We are taught at Indiana University, (a top ten university). We had to have at least a 3.8 gpa to even get into the ASN program.

Our instructors (who also teach the BSN's) admitted that what we learn in two years of clinicals, what the BSN's learn in 3yrs, and only the more intelligent students can learn at the accelerated pace of the ASN. Many a BSN student has been amazed when they find out they needed 2 semesters of fundamentals and we had to do it in one semester. The ASN or ADN programs are intensive hard programs.

There is no difference what-so-ever in the clinical nursing instruction; with meds or anything else.

Gesh, I have enough credits from going to college years ago... to fulfill 2/3's of BSN requirements. The only added courses are the research or management courses of which a lot of us have no interest in. I have no plans to research and no plans to manage; been there, done that in the corporate world before becoming a nurse. I personally had a 3.93 gpa from 25 prior classes in another major before becoming a nurse.

So come down off your condescending high-horse; you are only trying to make yourself feel superior.....when it actually makes you appear much less.:nono: :nono: :nono: :nono:

Please don't step on my rainbow simply because I didn't attend a "University".

I think Timothy's point is that the RN you earn is more valuable in terms of job opportunities and earning potential than the Associate's Degree you may have earned at the same time.

RN training IS more than that typical for an Associate's Degree. If earning BSN isn't automatically part of the rigorous program, then it really should be easier for RNs to bridge to BSN. And given the comments I've read here, it also seems that nursing schools really need to re-think the BSN curriculum if they want it to be appealing to more practicing nurses. It needs to clearly offer more than just a piece of paper.

Specializes in PEDS ~ PP ~ NNB & LII Nursery.
I think Timothy's point is that the RN you earn is more valuable in terms of job opportunities and earning potential than the Associate's Degree you may have earned at the same time.

I am an RN with an ADN degree from a 2 year program at a local college. As for Bridging from "RN" to "BSN"... the way I understand it, once you "bridge" to the BSN you are still an RN.

rags

Specializes in Med/Surg,ER, PACU,and Radiology.

Why is everyone at each other's throats? It is true that doctors stick together and nurses find a way to beat eachother up. :madface: What's the deal? I started out in a diploma program in N.J. and switched to a BSN program at a college in N.Y. I did this only because at the time I was in the diploma program I kept hearing every nurse is going to need to get her/his BSN eventually. I started out in a Diploma nursing school with some really great people and ended in a BSN nursing school with really great people. Lets be honest what really counts is why you went into nursing. Was it for the money or because you really wanted to help people? Nurse who puts her patients care first before the almighty dollar are the ones I want to work with. I'm not going to ask them are they a Diploma nurse or a BSN nurse. Can we PLEASE STOP beating each other up? Lets fight for good nursing care and the funding needed to provided a better nurse patient ratio. That's my 2 cents. Thanks for listening.

Specializes in Stepdown/IMU, full-time Night shift charge.

(satirical comment) Stop beating each other up? This is nursing. We eat our young with eggs and grits (sorry from the South) and then we BBQ our old-fashioned nurses for dinner. We eat a little lighter for lunch -- LPNs, with nursing asistants for that midday snack on our coffee break.

I once tried Respiratory Therapists for midnight snacks, but most of them smoke. And forget Radiology Techs -- never have liked microwaved food.

(end satirical comment)

Specializes in Med/Surg, Ortho, Rehab, ACU-Telemetry.

well it seems as if we can't possibly get off this touchy subject. i think we should just agree to disagree. i have my associates degree, but i am going to start classes 4/17 to get my bsn, only

because i want to be an instructor. if you are interested in going into some type of 'management', then a bsn is essential and also required. many of us 'ole' nurses can't work on the floors any longer. it's way too hard on our already tiring bodies. :uhoh21: so i think it solely depends on what we want to get out of our nursing careers, not to just be better than someone with a lesser degree (two years compared to four).

Specializes in Critical Care, Pediatrics, Geriatrics.
(satirical comment) Stop beating each other up? This is nursing. We eat our young with eggs and grits (sorry from the South) and then we BBQ our old-fashioned nurses for dinner. We eat a little lighter for lunch -- LPNs, with nursing asistants for that midday snack on our coffee break.

I once tried Respiratory Therapists for midnight snacks, but most of them smoke. And forget Radiology Techs -- never have liked microwaved food.

(end satirical comment)

LMAO:lol2: :lol2: :lol2:

Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.

i ask we keep the posts on-topic and refrain from personal attacks against other members. please, keep this hot topic from descending into flames, or the thread will have to be closed.

thanks!

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