A&P prof's inappropriate response to request for alternative to animal dissection

[sarailyse]

I am taking online A&P II at a community college. The course includes a lab component, though lab is not a requirement for the nursing program to which I have been admitted. I am not squeamish (used to be an EMT), nor do I oppose human cadaver dissection. I do, however, object to animal dissection for ethical reasons. I contacted my professor to request an alternative to the cow eye and heart dissection activities citing my ethical objection to animal dissection, and the fact that I haven't eaten or worn animals for over two decades. I expressed my willingness to engage in an alternate activity, such as an interactive, multimedia software program (we already utilize such software to conduct experiments on virtual lab animals). My request was denied. I was informed that if I chose not to do the dissections, I would be penalized with a deduction in points.

In response to my e-mail asking my professor to reconsider, I received the following reply (excerpt):

Would you tell someone who is badly mangled in a auto accident and bleeding to death that you cannot work on them because you are a vegetarian? I would hope not. If so, then you should choose another career.

My professor also called my ethical opposition to animal dissection into question with the following statement:

I understand being a vegetarian but this assignment does not require you to eat these animal specimens.

I found his message to be inappropriate, offensive, and ridiculous. I would like to obtain some outside perspective and would appreciate any comments you may have about this situation. Thanks.

[nursel56]

I'm lucky to live in a large city. Many Science Museums have really excellent interactive programs with preserved disecctions of human beings and animals, if you want to see the real deal. I'm not sure it's necessary to cut and pick up an animal part to be a good nurse, though.

I must say I am surprised at the snarkiness of these A and P profs!! They seem to be making a joke about someone's ethical beliefs. That is totally uncalled for.

[Jolie, BSN]

A few more thoughts:

While it is certainly possible to learn the structures of the human body from diagrams, models and museum displays, I think one important aspect of A&P lab is to see, touch and manipulate actual tissue, whether human or animal. Generally speaking, the animals that are chosen for dissection in labs have anatomical features that are quite similar to that of humans. So examining and dissecting the brain of a sheep, muscles and nervous tissue of a cat or heart of a cow helps one to appreciate the delicate nature of human tissue, the ease of injury, the mechanisms of pain, the complex process of healing, etc.

In my nursing program, we had one whopping shift in the OR. Many of us griped and moaned that a single day of observing (not participating) in surgery was useless. After commenting that we were free to give it up and stay on med-surg, our instructor explained that the purpose of the observation was not to make OR nurses of us, but to give us an appreciation of the invasiveness of surgery from a standpoint of pain management, infection control, the origin of surgical complications, and simply a better understanding of the post-op care of a patient. Having never seen a surgical procedure of any kind, I can tell you it was an awe-inspiring experience that more than accomplished our instructor's goals.

I think the same can be said for actually handling and manipulating once-living tissue in the A&P lab. It frustrates me that schools are dropping this requirement for lack of supplies and space. I think that is a terrible disservice to the students who may go on to practice healthcare professions without ever having the opportunity to experience these basic studies first-hand.

As for the OP. If s/he has no objection to human dissection, then it may have been prudent to explore enrolling in a higher-level A&P course such as is taken by pre-med students. Those courses almost always offer human cadaver dissection instead of the animal substitutes used in nursing A&P courses. Most education programs allow one to substitute a more challenging, higher-level course in place of the usual requirements. This would have allowed the OP to maintain his/her integrity regarding animal dissection without compromising eduational quality or preparedness.

[bell47]

In high school Biology II we disected all kinds of animals, including cats. There were two girls that objected, and made a fuss about it. When the principle told them they had to do it, the teacher walked around the room singing " meow, meow, meow, meow, meow, meow" You know the tune from the Meow Mix catfood commercials!

On a different note, would you ever get surgery from a surgeon who said" well I've never really cut on anything living, but I watched it all online!" Or get a shot with medicine that was tested on animals? I mean if you don't like the taste of meat by all means don't eat it, but how far do you really take this animal stuff. You should just drop the class if it's not required, if it is then you should do what everyone else inthe class has to do.

[mangopeach]

In high school Biology II we disected all kinds of animals, including cats. There were two girls that objected, and made a fuss about it. When the principle told them they had to do it, the teacher walked around the room singing " meow, meow, meow, meow, meow, meow" You know the tune from the Meow Mix catfood commercials!

That teacher was very tacky and unprofessional. You can disagree with a person's POV without being donkey's butt.

[CrunchRN, ADN, RN]

What a crock! You do not need to ever dissect anything to be a good nurse or learn anatomy. What an old fashioned place. What a waste also. Just not a valuable use of those resources.

[Malick]

Heads up i am an animal lover myself , but i think you are been extreme here and you should reconsider your career path if you are not willing to make the small sacrifice to deal with one or 2 animals for once and only once in your life.

[brighella]

As a cat lover, dissecting cats was not something I was comfortable with. We were told that these cats had been strays and ferral cats who had been euthanized. I did it, learned a heck of a lot, understood how things are "put together" much better. The professor probably gets these complaints every semester, and has found that his blunt language is the fastest way to stop the complaining in its tracks. Animals have been used as learning tools since the begining of time. Dissecting can be done in a respectful way, and brings with it some things I would consider essential for nurses to know. If this is the most objectionable thing you find in your education, you're doing pretty good.

[CrunchRN, ADN, RN]

Puhlease. There is no need to sacrifice these animals with modern day teaching techniques and visualization methods.

I have been a nurse for 16 years and we did not dissect anything..........

The need to cut up frogs, pigs, cats, or whatever is so yesterday. With imaging and media we have available today it is just a total waste.

Med students do benefit from dissecting humans because they need that kind of understanding, but someday soon even that will be passe because of simulation techniques we have now.

Y'all need to get with the modern world!

[Malick]

CrunchRN

Imaging cant replace the real thing. I did imaging oncology research at MGH and in order to work out the technology you need life 3d suggest. if you dont see it in real life , in an xray or scan will have very little meaning , specially since anatomy is not standard no matter how many intestines you see on a picture, once you open a body every human looks very different pass the standard anatomical features.

[CrunchRN, ADN, RN]

And yet for 16 years I have been a fine nurse without ever dissecting a thing!

I will just totally have to disagree.

Pilots do not have to dissect a plane in order to understand the mechanics and fly........:)

[d'cm]

I loved dissecting the cat's tongue because I got to tell a terrible pun: 'what's the matter kitty? Student got your tongue?"

[Jiminocala]

The cow was dead before it was dissected and the eye would have gone into petfood had it not found it's way to your college for the purpose of teaching Nursing Students about the human eye, using animal models. Would you have allowed your fellow students to dissect one of your eyes instead? If not, why not? Because you are better than an animal? Horrors! Bad Vegetarian! Bad human!

You need to understand that it is not your place to control your teacher's speech, define the scope of science or your own course work. You signed up for the class and it is what it is. Take your opinions and/or yourself somewhere else where the professors thoughtlessly believe and conform their speech to the leftist propaganda which you have bought into.

Trying to censor the professor because he/she doesn't agree with your values is the wrong thing to do, because your attitude and approach to this non-problem is based on your own narrow perspective.

The problem is with you and your offended-by-most-anything-I-don't-agree-with approach to what should be decided based on facts, not emotion. Do you really want to be a nurse? You decide, get a life, another school, or a different major.