I am taking online A&P II at a community college. The course includes a lab component, though lab is not a requirement for the nursing program to which I have been admitted. I am not squeamish (used to be an EMT), nor do I oppose human cadaver dissection. I do, however, object to animal dissection for ethical reasons. I contacted my professor to request an alternative to the cow eye and heart dissection activities citing my ethical objection to animal dissection, and the fact that I haven't eaten or worn animals for over two decades. I expressed my willingness to engage in an alternate activity, such as an interactive, multimedia software program (we already utilize such software to conduct experiments on virtual lab animals). My request was denied. I was informed that if I chose not to do the dissections, I would be penalized with a deduction in points.
In response to my e-mail asking my professor to reconsider, I received the following reply (excerpt):
Would you tell someone who is badly mangled in a auto accident and bleeding to death that you cannot work on them because you are a vegetarian? I would hope not. If so, then you should choose another career.
My professor also called my ethical opposition to animal dissection into question with the following statement:
I understand being a vegetarian but this assignment does not require you to eat these animal specimens.
I found his message to be inappropriate, offensive, and ridiculous. I would like to obtain some outside perspective and would appreciate any comments you may have about this situation. Thanks.
The professor could have been nicer about the way he said it, but if it's part of the course, it's part of the course.
Like a few others have mentioned, how do you feel about drugs that have been tested on animals? When drugs are tested on animals, they don't always give the animals a small portion of drugs and see what happens. They often give the animals drugs until they die, so they can determine the lethal dose. Animals are also used in disease research. For example, an animal may be genetically modified to be more likely to get cancer, so the scientist can see if the animal does get cancer and how the cancer develops. Or is this not the same to you?
I think there is some value in animal dissection. I only dissected 3 things in my A&P 1 class, and while the cow eye didn't do much for me, the sheep heart and brain really helped me understand the anatomy on a level I didn't get from pictures and diagrams.
the cow was dead before it was dissected and the eye would have gone into petfood had it not found it's way to your college for the purpose of teaching nursing students about the human eye, using animal models. would you have allowed your fellow students to dissect one of your eyes instead? if not, why not? because you are better than an animal? horrors! bad vegetarian! bad human!
you need to understand that it is not your place to control your teacher's speech, define the scope of science or your own course work. you signed up for the class and it is what it is. take your opinions and/or yourself somewhere else where the professors thoughtlessly believe and conform their speech to the leftist propaganda which you have bought into.
trying to censor the professor because he/she doesn't agree with your values is the wrong thing to do, because your attitude and approach to this non-problem is based on your own narrow perspective.
the problem is with you and your offended-by-most-anything-i-don't-agree-with approach to what should be decided based on facts, not emotion. do you really want to be a nurse? you decide, get a life, another school, or a different major.
:eek:yikes that is a bit harsh. the op never said anything about being offended by "most anything". i could be wrong but by the tone of your post it sounds like you really have an axe to grind with vegetarians/vegans.
op, i am a vegan as well and am currently in an a&p class so i understand your dilemma. i have not had to do any dissections yet, however, i will have to cross that bridge next semester. i haven't figured out what i will do when that time comes. i realize that the medications that i would be administering as a nurse have been tested on animals...but i have no control over that. if it were up to me animal testing would be banned...but it isn't, so i do the best i can.
Specializes in Clinical Research, Outpt Women's Health.
Drug testing on animals? Absolutely needed and important. Not the same thing at all. Also, this is about whether a student should be able to decline something that is not CRUCIAL to becoming a nurse.
In the old days we used to all have to stick NG tubes down each other. Helpful? Maybe? Crucial? No. You eventually learned it anyway when it was needed by someone and another nurse showed you. You could still figure out the anatomy to do the procedure......
If you want to dissect then great, but i feel strongly it should not be forced on people.
Now, come here and let me practice my NG insertion technique on all you adamant people!
Drug testing on animals? Absolutely needed and important. Not the same thing at all. Also, this is about whether a student should be able to decline something that is not CRUCIAL to becoming a nurse.
I'm not sure if you are mentioned the drug testing because of what I posted or not. I only brought it up because several other posters asked the OP if s/he would be comforatable administering drugs because they had been tested on non human animals. I do see them as seperate issues and I agree that it is not crucial to dissect but disagree that drug testing on non human animals is. Anyway, not trying to change the topic of this thread.:)
Re: A&P prof's inappropriate response to request for alternative to animal dissection
And yet for 16 years I have been a fine nurse without ever dissecting a thing!
I will just totally have to disagree.
Pilots do not have to dissect a plane in order to understand the mechanics and fly........:)
Actually, pilots DO have to learn internal systems on the planes they fly. Some learning involves taking things apart be it cats or airplanes. I'm learning to be a nurse as a second career. I was an Airline Transport pilot/ Aircraft Mechanic/Inspector as first career. best wishes, Bell47;)
Specializes in Clinical Research, Outpt Women's Health.
But, you can learn all the systems enough to learn what you need as a pilot.
The engine repair person of course would need to just like a pathologist, but then they need to do it on people not animals. The animal step is a waste!
Specializes in ICU of all kinds, CVICU, Cath Lab, ER..
First of all, as a vegetarian, I must protest. The professor is obviously under the influence of embalming fluid....much too much time spent around that barrel of dead cats.
Secondly, please tell me honestly what the heck are students expected to learn by fishing through decaying cat flesh? I never have figured out where to put that bit of learning in my 20 year old career. Do you think we can move these nursing schools out of the dark ages? A simple plastic replica (just like the heart or lungs demonstrated every day somewhere in an up to date lab) would be sooooo much simpler and lord knows we won't have to worry about finding aunt nellie's missing cat in the anatomy class!
The class in which I studied A & P had tons of questions that should have been addressed - but oh, no, we were kept busy slicing. Gross. Vile and pathetic.
I agree with your professor. I'm sure that EVERY semester there are at least 1 or 2 people coming to him asking for exemption- and I'm sure it gets old.
That said, there are MANY colleges which have human subjects as part of the AP course. Simply, take that course instead and transfer it back to your college. Once you enroll, you are subject to the hoops of that class. I'm quite sure that you knew well ahead of time about the cat, you never should have registered- you should have started planning an alternate method of earning that credit from day 1. It is YOUR responsibility to obtain credit for AP, not the responsibility of the college to conform to your ethics. Being a vegan, is a choice, not a religion- the college has no responsibility to honor your preference.
I agree with your professor. I'm sure that EVERY semester there are at least 1 or 2 people coming to him asking for exemption- and I'm sure it gets old.
That said, there are MANY colleges which have human subjects as part of the AP course. Simply, take that course instead and transfer it back to your college. Once you enroll, you are subject to the hoops of that class. I'm quite sure that you knew well ahead of time about the cat, you never should have registered- you should have started planning an alternate method of earning that credit from day 1. It is YOUR responsibility to obtain credit for AP, not the responsibility of the college to conform to your ethics. Being a vegan, is a choice, not a religion- the college has no responsibility to honor your preference.
Interesting....veganism is a choice but a persons religion is not....ok
ETA - A person my be vegetarian/vegan because of their religion. The two are linked for many people. Several major religions of the world promote vegetariansim including several branches of Christianity, the seventh day adventists come immediately to mind.
Specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty.
The OP was more concerned about the e-mail response from the professor. That was the point of her post. I'm not a vegetarian nor do I have a problem with dissecting animals. However, if there was a way to evaluate someone's nursing skills with the only variable being whether or not they dissected animals in a college anatomy class, you won't find that it affects anything. It is interesting, but not essential.
Anyway, whether you agree or not, people who are vegetarians to whatever degree, have come to that decision based on an ethical belief. Science collides with spiritual/ethical beliefs all the time!! Do you mock and trivialize someone when other ethical issues are put front and center, such as futile extension of life, abortion, etc.?
The prof in the OPs first post, the prof who "dug through a box of cats looking for a kitten", and the one who sang "meow, meow, meow" totally inappropriate! And that, basically was the OP's original complaint.
Re: A&P prof's inappropriate response to request for alternative to animal dissection
CrunchRN, ADN, RN
4,556 Posts
At my school it was optional. They just gave you an optional assignment if you did not wish to do it.
I still think your professor is a jerk, and it is a waste, but sometimes you do just have to suck it up since they have all the power.
However, I think there is nothing wrong with you not wishing to do it and that you have the potential to be a fine nurse without it. Good luck!