A&P prof's inappropriate response to request for alternative to animal dissection

Nursing Students Pre-Nursing

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I am taking online A&P II at a community college. The course includes a lab component, though lab is not a requirement for the nursing program to which I have been admitted. I am not squeamish (used to be an EMT), nor do I oppose human cadaver dissection. I do, however, object to animal dissection for ethical reasons. I contacted my professor to request an alternative to the cow eye and heart dissection activities citing my ethical objection to animal dissection, and the fact that I haven't eaten or worn animals for over two decades. I expressed my willingness to engage in an alternate activity, such as an interactive, multimedia software program (we already utilize such software to conduct experiments on virtual lab animals). My request was denied. I was informed that if I chose not to do the dissections, I would be penalized with a deduction in points.

In response to my e-mail asking my professor to reconsider, I received the following reply (excerpt):

Would you tell someone who is badly mangled in a auto accident and bleeding to death that you cannot work on them because you are a vegetarian? I would hope not. If so, then you should choose another career.

My professor also called my ethical opposition to animal dissection into question with the following statement:

I understand being a vegetarian but this assignment does not require you to eat these animal specimens.

I found his message to be inappropriate, offensive, and ridiculous. I would like to obtain some outside perspective and would appreciate any comments you may have about this situation. Thanks.

Yes. Consent is provided (I myself plan to donate my body to science).

Ok, well you will never get around that - they just cannot give consent. So are you opposed to veterinarian students dissecting animals so they become appropriate, skilled and knowledgable physicians of animals? Again, no consent can be given.

I know this is your personal choice, but it just seems a little extreme and unrealistic when dealing with medicine and science. And what better use of a life than to be used for improvement in medicine (for both humans and animals) as opposed to chicken kabob? ()

Specializes in pandemic, public health, disasters.

Sorry. That sucks.

Since the course is not required for you, might think of dropping the course. In the professor's defense, you knew you were going to have to dissect things and you probably should've dropped the class after getting the syllabus on the first day.

Good luck [hug]

Specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty.
Yes. Consent is provided (I myself plan to donate my body to science).

I hope you are able to arrive at an acceptable solution. Your prof' could have answered your question very easily without including the obvious disdain toward your beliefs. Some really incredible 3-D computer modeling is being done out there, though! Thanks so much for your prompt reply.

The professor's response although harsh I feel he has a point... Once you select a major, school is not a la carte...you can't pick and choose which parts of your major you want to complete.... The pre-reqs and labs are designed to maximize your potential for success in your future educational goals...I am vegetarian as well, but I know there are some things I may have to do although I don't necessarily care for them.... I could see if he asked you guys to kill the cow, and then dissect it.... Just think about how many times a semester he's probably asked this question. I think that's where his frustration is coming from. Not you personally.

Specializes in N/A.

I agree 100% with the professor.

This is your job, that is your assignment, and if you don't like it, you don;t have to do it, but prepare to take the failing grade.

Getting up the courage to touch something you dont want to touch is part of the experience, and if you fail you fail. I understand about moral obligations I guess, because the animal was killed in a cruel way to obtain his body part, but why are you choosing to go into healthcare if animal treatment is your number one concern?

Many medications are made from animal by-product, and keep people alive. And they are almost always tested on animals before they are tested on humans. That's just the way it is, I know it's unfair to the animals, but let me pose a question you:

I know it may sound cruel, but how do you know an animal wouldn't dissect YOU or test drugs on YOU if the roles were reversed in some crazy parallel universe? Survival of the fittest, either deuce it or get off the pot.

While I agree that the dissection is important, he was terribly rude in his response. It was uncalled for, unprofessional, and out of line.

Specializes in ICU.

What an awful situation. If I were you, I'd opt out of the lab portion of A&P since it isn't required, and write a letter to the department.

I agree with you - dissecting an animal IS different from cadavers/saving living people. I did a cat dissection in Anatomy last semester, and it was really rough on me. But just tonight I took rotation preforming CPR on a post-CABG code blue while there was a resident on either side putting in a chest tube. It was NOT pretty. Not wanting to cut up a dead animal does NOT mean you don't know your stuff for A&P or that you would not make a fantastic nurse, willing to do what it takes as far as being in the middle of proceedures/wound care/IV/whathaveyou.

So if you're pro-life and you become a nurse, are you going to deny care for someone because they had an abortion a couple of years before? Sometimes we have to do things that are against our beliefs, in the name of caring for the patient. The cat dissection is an important part of learning how various systems work together. No, we're not cats, but our bodies work basically the same way and it's really a learning experience to see how it all fits together.

Specializes in Maternal - Child Health.

The OP indicates that the nursing program she plans to attend does not require the lab portion of A&P.

That leaves me with questions:

Why did s/he not take A&P at that school and skip the lab portion? I assume that the OP is taking on-line A&P at another institution as a matter of convenience or cost savings. That's fine, but one can't expect School B to honor School A's academic rules. If a student takes A&P at School A, the student must adhere to School A's requirements for that course, regardless of what School B says.

What is the quality of a nursing program that does not require A&P lab? That's a pretty basic component of a nursing program. What other basic components are students allowed to "opt out of" and what effect does that have on the overall quality of the nursing education?

Specializes in ICU.
So if you're pro-life and you become a nurse, are you going to deny care for someone because they had an abortion a couple of years before? Sometimes we have to do things that are against our beliefs, in the name of caring for the patient.

I don't see how that example is even remotely related to this situation, Austrya. If someone is strongly pro-life, they should not be a nurse that is expected to be involved in the care of a patient who is having/will have an abortion preformed during the course of care as part of their job description. Simple as that. And that's about being a decent human, not a good nurse. Obviously, don't get a job doing something you morally object to, because it will invariably impact your work quality.

And if someone is the kind of person that would let a person's history of abortion influence their (unrelated) care of that patient, then they shouldn't be a nurse. Or anyone who interacts with other people, really. Maybe they can find a nice deserted island somewhere.

This issue is about sarailyse's personal moral choice, not his/her patient's or dissection subject's personal moral choices. I don't think sarailyse cares if his/her dissection subject had a previous abortion. Or was vegetarian. He/She's not judging others; just making choices in line with their conscience that only affect themselves. (And their grade.) I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume that sarailyse would treat patients to the best of his/her ability regardless of the patient's omnivore/vegetarian status. :)

Well, it could be worse. When my AnP instructor was approached about an alternative dissection (we were doing cats), he replied by saying, "Hold on, I think I have a kitten around here somewhere.." While digging through the box of cats. :p

While I wont comment on the ethical/moral issue, I will add that cat dissection, as well as cow eye, sheep lung, heart, kidney and brain and several others were a requirment of the course and the nursing program. While I found it to be extremely disgusting (using the same cat for 8 weeks as we went through the body systems in AnP2, yuck!) it was an invaluable learning tool.

What is the quality of a nursing program that does not require A&P lab? That's a pretty basic component of a nursing program. What other basic components are students allowed to "opt out of" and what effect does that have on the overall quality of the nursing education?

That's a good question! While our school requires lab, we will most likely not be dissecting anything. On the first day of school we were told that the school really has no where to store animals. So if something should come in we will look at it, but if not, then we won't.

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