Why do nurses constantly say they don't hire ASN? - page 7

OK this is funny because every Magnet hospital I go to someone who doesn't work in HR or is NOT a hiring Manager just has to say they don't hire Associate Degree nurses. I have been asked to be hired... Read More

  1. Visit  PMFB-RN profile page
    0
    Quote from solneeshka
    As someone who has spent time in management (and thus making hiring decisions), I can say this sounds a little paranoid...what manager has the luxury to say I'm going to hire Suzy over Sam because Suzy will have to go into debt because she doesn't have her BSN yet, and that way she'll be tied to staying here even if she wants to leave? Really? You hire the best nurse for the job, whoever is the best fit. If your facility requires that you only hire BSN's then those are the only applications that you see.
    *** It's not paranoid and it's not the unit managers who feel that. I have good reason to know that part of the reason that my last hospital prefered BSN grads. They are seen as less likely to vote with their feet when faced with poor working conditions. I heard them say so. I was at a very high level meeting where I was supposed to present my data right away in the morning then leave. On my way out an old friend who is a service line manager invited me to sit at his table and take advantage of the fancy catered breakfast. I sat there for a couple hours being shocked at what I heard.
  2. Visit  PMFB-RN profile page
    0
    Quote from solneeshka
    Are you sure they *have* to pay for that ACLS? I have to have a license to be a nurse but my facility doesn't pay for it.
    *** Yes, if they require you to be ACLS certified for your job. At least in the 4 states I have worked as an RN.
  3. Visit  PMFB-RN profile page
    0
    Quote from DoGoodThenGo
    Ok, I did say neither of *us*, how much more specific does one have to get? *LOL*
    *** When you said "us" I took it to mean you and I.
  4. Visit  carolinapooh profile page
    4
    Quote from PMFB-RN
    *** Even if they do they are still left out in the cold. The won't qualify for new grads programs when they graduate since they don't have BSN and when they get their BSN they still won't qualify since they are no longer new grads.
    I always wonder why few question the increase in time and expence without an increase in pay. RN pay has been decreasing over the last 5 years but the time and expence to become an RN is increasing. Why isn't there higher pay for the BSN grad? (more than a token 0.50 cents). Why isn't anyone bothered by this?
    I COMPLETELY AGREE WITH THIS. Problem is I can't hit the 'like' button enough.

    I was shocked when I learned prior to getting my BSN that there was no (at least starting) difference in pay for ANY RN. (I didn't care, I was still going, but that didn't change the fact that I was very surprised.)

    Shoot me for it if you must, but I believe that's part of the problem. Until the powers that be establish a pay scale reflective of the education attained like the rest of the working world has, there will be no changes made in the level of education required. Because I see THAT as one of the few arguements for this that holds water: there's absolutely no incentive to actually complete a BSN if your goal is to stay at the bedside - which is where we DESPERATELY need experienced nurses to stay!!

    I would also submit that hospital management needs to change its opinion of and the way it treats its RN staff, or no one will bother with a BS degree. Who in the name of God wants to get a BS (or really, any degree - any RN!), go through the rigor and the expense, and be treated no different than the janitor?

    I think part of the push behind the whole BS thing is this: the thinking, though it's never said, is that if we've all got BS degrees, this treating of RNs like chattel will stop.

    I'm here to say it won't.

    What will stop it is start putting RNs and NPs and other RNs with more advanced degrees in medical schools as instructors. Stop this ridiculous division between the 'classes' (because that's what it is, folks, it's a caste system in many cases), stop trying to set us apart (please, please don't let me get started on why I think all this nursing diagnosis garbage damages the profession), start INTEGRATING US AS PART OF THE TEAM, regardless of what our educational background is.

    Stop letting med students get away with treating RNs - TRAINED PROFESSIONALS - like handmaidens. We know they do it. We've all seen it and we've all been subjected to it. I for one call them out on it! (It's one lovely thing about the military, really - I am now the same rank as most of the MDs - and I've actually looked at a few smartmouths and said, 'Really, Captain? Because you do realize we're both captains, right?' Surgical residents, who are notorious for this, hate it. Suck it up - you're no better than I and you're not even in my chain of command, so chill out, please. Especially if we're the same rank - you do not walk on water!)

    Stop taking crap from physicians that is nothing but abuse, and stop letting management kowtow to physicians. We've given the administrators all the power. Why? No other profession lets this happen. Even TEACHERS are starting to say ENOUGH, and more power to them! (Google the system in Seattle who told the administrators to take their crappy standardized tests and shove them - and won.)

    If we did this, the degree might matter a bit less. If we'd stop acting like cowering puppies and start acting like professionals, we might get a bit further.

    I sound like Jimmy Hoffa. We all know what happened to him.... And they are building a new parking deck over on the Air Force base...
    Last edit by carolinapooh on May 25, '13
    besaangel, PMFB-RN, nursel56, and 1 other like this.
  5. Visit  carolinapooh profile page
    0
    Quote from PMFB-RN
    *** Even if they do they are still left out in the cold. The won't qualify for new grads programs when they graduate since they don't have BSN and when they get their BSN they still won't qualify since they are no longer new grads.
    I always wonder why few question the increase in time and expence without an increase in pay. RN pay has been decreasing over the last 5 years but the time and expence to become an RN is increasing. Why isn't there higher pay for the BSN grad? (more than a token 0.50 cents). Why isn't anyone bothered by this?
    I'm going to get flamed for this, but I read on a link someone provided elsewhere on the board - I think it was from the American Association of Colleges of Nursing or whatever the name of that group is, and it was recent - that 60% of the workforce holds an AD/ASN.

    There's your answer. Sorry, but I think it's true.
  6. Visit  Jory profile page
    2
    When I was hired right out of school, I was hired at a magnet hospital. I had an ADN..however, I also wasn't 20 years old and had a significant amount of work experience behind me in non-nursing.

    At orientation, 73 nurses were hired. They gave us a breakdown of "who your new nursing resident class" was.

    They didn't mention names but they gave demographics as to who had what kind of degree.

    Out of 73 nurses, only 6 hired were ADN's.

    It my interest you to know that there are 3 BSN programs in this region, but there are 8 community college ADN programs. Two of the BSN programs only admit starting in the fall while half of the community colleges admit twice per year.

    If that tells you anything at all at the direction it's going.

    RN-BSN programs are easy to get and you can typically get the hospital to pay for it. I would rather have it than not as if you ever desire for something more, there will come a point in your career when it will become limiting.
    besaangel and carolinapooh like this.
  7. Visit  LadyFree28 profile page
    2
    Quote from carolinapooh

    Shoot me for it if you must, but I believe that's part of the problem. Until the powers that be establish a pay scale reflective of the education attained like the rest of the working world has, there will be no changes made in the level of education required. Because I see THAT as one of the few arguements for this that holds water: there's absolutely no incentive to actually complete a BSN if your goal is to stay at the bedside - which is where we DESPERATELY need experienced nurses to stay!!

    I would also submit that hospital management needs to change its opinion of and the way it treats its RN staff, or no one will bother with a BS degree. Who in the name of God wants to get a BS (or really, any degree - any RN!), go through the rigor and the expense, and be treated no different than the janitor?

    I think part of the push behind the whole BS thing is this: the thinking, though it's never said, is that if we've all got BS degrees, this treating of RNs like chattel will stop.

    I'm here to say it won't.

    What will stop it is start putting RNs and NPs and other RNs with more advanced degrees in medical schools as instructors. Stop this ridiculous division between the 'classes' (because that's what it is, folks, it's a caste system in many cases), stop trying to set us apart (please, please don't let me get started on why I think all this nursing diagnosis garbage damages the profession), start INTEGRATING US AS PART OF THE TEAM, regardless of what our educational background is.

    Stop letting med students get away with treating RNs - TRAINED PROFESSIONALS - like handmaidens. We know they do it. We've all seen it and we've all been subjected to it. I for one call them out on it! (It's one lovely thing about the military, really - I am now the same rank as most of the MDs - and I've actually looked at a few smartmouths and said, 'Really, Captain? Because you do realize we're both captains, right?' Surgical residents, who are notorious for this, hate it. Suck it up - you're no better than I and you're not even in my chain of command, so chill out, please. Especially if we're the same rank - you do not walk on water!)

    Stop taking crap from physicians that is nothing but abuse, and stop letting management kowtow to physicians. We've given the administrators all the power. Why? No other profession lets this happen. Even TEACHERS are starting to say ENOUGH, and more power to them! (Google the system in Seattle who told the administrators to take their crappy standardized tests and shove them - and won.)

    If we did this, the degree might matter a bit less. If we'd stop acting like cowering puppies and start acting like professionals, we might get a bit further.
    ^Agree!!!
    Esme12 and carolinapooh like this.
  8. Visit  PMFB-RN profile page
    1
    Quote from carolinapooh
    I'm going to get flamed for this, but I read on a link someone provided elsewhere on the board - I think it was from the American Association of Colleges of Nursing or whatever the name of that group is, and it was recent - that 60% of the workforce holds an AD/ASN.

    There's your answer. Sorry, but I think it's true.
    *** I don't understand how 60% of the work force holding ADNs explains why there is no increase in pay for BSNs? Seems logical to me that if the cost of entry to the profession is going to take twice as long (4 years vs 2) and the cost is going to increase 10x (60K for BSN in my state vs $6K for ADN) then there should be some increase in compensation for the added time and money invested.
    Nurse_Diane likes this.
  9. Visit  PMFB-RN profile page
    1
    Quote from carolinapooh
    I COMPLETELY AGREE WITH THIS. Problem is I can't hit the 'like' button enough.

    I was shocked when I learned prior to getting my BSN that there was no (at least starting) difference in pay for ANY RN. (I didn't care, I was still going, but that didn't change the fact that I was very surprised.)

    Shoot me for it if you must, but I believe that's part of the problem. Until the powers that be establish a pay scale reflective of the education attained like the rest of the working world has, there will be no changes made in the level of education required. Because I see THAT as one of the few arguements for this that holds water: there's absolutely no incentive to actually complete a BSN if your goal is to stay at the bedside - which is where we DESPERATELY need experienced nurses to stay!!

    I would also submit that hospital management needs to change its opinion of and the way it treats its RN staff, or no one will bother with a BS degree. Who in the name of God wants to get a BS (or really, any degree - any RN!), go through the rigor and the expense, and be treated no different than the janitor?

    I think part of the push behind the whole BS thing is this: the thinking, though it's never said, is that if we've all got BS degrees, this treating of RNs like chattel will stop.

    I'm here to say it won't.

    What will stop it is start putting RNs and NPs and other RNs with more advanced degrees in medical schools as instructors. Stop this ridiculous division between the 'classes' (because that's what it is, folks, it's a caste system in many cases), stop trying to set us apart (please, please don't let me get started on why I think all this nursing diagnosis garbage damages the profession), start INTEGRATING US AS PART OF THE TEAM, regardless of what our educational background is.

    Stop letting med students get away with treating RNs - TRAINED PROFESSIONALS - like handmaidens. We know they do it. We've all seen it and we've all been subjected to it. I for one call them out on it! (It's one lovely thing about the military, really - I am now the same rank as most of the MDs - and I've actually looked at a few smartmouths and said, 'Really, Captain? Because you do realize we're both captains, right?' Surgical residents, who are notorious for this, hate it. Suck it up - you're no better than I and you're not even in my chain of command, so chill out, please. Especially if we're the same rank - you do not walk on water!)

    Stop taking crap from physicians that is nothing but abuse, and stop letting management kowtow to physicians. We've given the administrators all the power. Why? No other profession lets this happen. Even TEACHERS are starting to say ENOUGH, and more power to them! (Google the system in Seattle who told the administrators to take their crappy standardized tests and shove them - and won.)

    If we did this, the degree might matter a bit less. If we'd stop acting like cowering puppies and start acting like professionals, we might get a bit further.

    I sound like Jimmy Hoffa. We all know what happened to him.... And they are building a new parking deck over on the Air Force base...
    *** Well said.
    carolinapooh likes this.
  10. Visit  carolinapooh profile page
    0
    Because why would the majority want a raise for a minority?

    And thanks, BTW.
  11. Visit  PMFB-RN profile page
    0
    Quote from carolinapooh
    Because why would the majority want a raise for a minority?

    And thanks, BTW.
    *** I don't think what nurses want has much effect on our rate of pay. It used to, back when there were a lot of open nursing positions, but not now.
  12. Visit  carolinapooh profile page
    0
    I think it does.

    I think if we told hospitals to stick it, regardless of how many people are in line for a job, they'd change. What if we all said uh, no, I'm worth more than 20 bucks an hour? It would actually change. You want a BSN? Then pay me for it.

    Even when it was a nurse's market, no one did this.
  13. Visit  carolinapooh profile page
    0
    And yep, there are RNs in this country starting for just a couple of dollars more than that. With BSNs.

    In 2008, I made $19.34 an hour. And every hospital in the area was paying exactly the same, give or take a few cents - which to me reeked of price fixing. The only place not paying that was the VA.

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